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Colonel
90's was two decades ago. A long long time ago...
Z-10 thread
- Thread starter Red Guard
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90's was two decades ago. A long long time ago...
In Mid-90's, China's was 1/20 of today; only handful Chinese had cars. For last 5 years, the expansion of China's GDP each year was larger than 2 China of mid-90's. During the period, China accumulated more wealth and technologies than 5000 years of China's past. China have had profound and fundamental changes no country or mankind that ever experienced in such short period. The impact will take years for people like you to absorb.
Precisely.. I will be wondering who will take come and smear China UAV technology advancement since Israel is out for providing any tech help ever since the Harpy and US companies are definitely out of the equation..
Probably the Russian will start to make ridiculous claim all China UAV technology is provided/design by them since they don't even have a decent domestic UAV/UAV industries to talk about in the first place.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Kamov didn't do the detail design of WZ 10 Here is my take on this subject. Based on my experience with preliminary engineering of industrial plant .Preliminary engineer can be divided into 2 category. So called concept study and Front end engineering.
Both start with simulation of the system. Basically throwing a concept system and see how they will performed( operational enveloped, range, MTOW, agility in the case of helicopter). Then derive the operational and extreme design parameter of the system.
Now front end engineering is more involved. They normally added a fair amount of proprietary engineering of their own. In the case of Helicopter maybe rotor system, avionic or gearing system.
They will do almost a complete and detail engineering of those system. They will get the other less component from other supplier but they will normally recommend their client to use similar component as in their product or design
For the privilege of using their system you have to pay royalty.
Now what I guess is China do the former. Why? Because you cannot buy or lease a helicopter code Not that many firm design and built helicopter. China is subject to dual use technology embargo.
The code like any other code is not just based on theory of rotor dynamic but it also incorporate accumulated experience that Kamov has with building helicopter. Now how can China has that experience when she never built helicopter from the clean sheet.
The fact that China never pay royalty to Kamov and use completely domestic components show that China do the detail design of the helicopter on their own ,build it, tested it. improve on that early concept design by Kamov.
Preliminary engineering is just like road map to get from point A to B. but like your GPS it might not the route that someone take because there are too many diversion like Traffic accident that might necessitate detour along the way.
By now China should have built the code by themselves and with booming both domestic software and hardware industry plus one design under the belt ,she should have master the helicopter design
The Design in completely own by China as Wu Ximing said in this video
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The fifth WZ-10 squadron has stood up in Jinan MR. The main weakness of the WZ-10 is its engines. China is now working on the WZ-16 turboshaft engines that are much more powerful. Can they retrofit the existing WZ-10 helicopters with the new WZ-16 engines in the future ?
asif iqbal
Banned Idiot
No surprise there the production rate is probably 25-30 units per year expect another regiment maybe even two to stand up this year
Then they can start the upgrade programme once all regiments are equipped
Then they can start the upgrade programme once all regiments are equipped
I don't think engine is the main weakness of WZ-10. Powerful Helo Turbo shaft is a problem for PLA but its mainly in area of lifting where China wanted to build powerful Chopper with lifting power.
I believe a lot of PLA watch makes the mistake of comparing WZ-10 to AH-64. These 2 are different weight of class of helo.
WZ-10 is rated at 7tons and Ah-64 apache is a 10tons helo. WZ-10 will only be under powerful if they try to increase the weight of it to 10tons. WZ-16 shaft I believe will mostly benefit project like Z-15 and even biggger helo in pipeline of similar class of Mi-26.
engine was the main weakness of WZ-10,during the zhuhai airshow, WZ-10 manage to achieve impressive manueverity was due to absence IR suppression grill, armour,IRCM...
how WZ-10 going to survive in MANPAD rich environment is going to big question.just watch youtube downing of syrian helos or downing of AH-64 in iraq (and I recall back in 80's watching news footage, showing soviet MI-24 went down in flame after being hit by stinger missile)unless WZ-10 fitted with more powerful engine,which translated into better lift and extra protection.
What rubbish are you talking about? No WZ-10 are know to install IR suppression even the operational one. As for armour, I didn't know Chopper got added on armour like modular tank design. Can you enlighten me? Or you trying to suggest the one flying at Zuhai 2012 is a plastic painted in black color? Back your word and not your perception.
asif iqbal
Banned Idiot
I think the point is that with a more powerful engine the advantages are many
More engine means, more range, more fuel, more weapons, longer time in the air, better survivabilty, better situational awareness etc etc
The entirely new AH-64E Block III has a engine which produces more than 2,000Shp the most powerful Apache helo ever produced, it enables it to carry equipment for LINK16 and control UAV, this is the advantage of more powerful engines
Now these types of helos can carry Hellfire and Stinger missiles, both at the same time, more capabilitys means more options means more flexibilty in war time
Obviously the current WZ10 engine is good that's we have 60 in operation, but good military companies make a product and once the production and deliverys is complete a comprehensive upgrade programme is in place and starts as soon as the last unit is dilivered or even earlier
I would expect that China starts it's upgrade of WZ10 as soon as new turbo shaft is in place replacing all engines on current WZ10 expanding the envelope of capabilities of the WZ10
The jewel in the crown of the USAF is the F22 Raptor, last units were just delivered and a upgrade programme until 2023 is now scheduled by Lockheed Martain, your pipeline is always full that is the way modern military machines work
More engine means, more range, more fuel, more weapons, longer time in the air, better survivabilty, better situational awareness etc etc
The entirely new AH-64E Block III has a engine which produces more than 2,000Shp the most powerful Apache helo ever produced, it enables it to carry equipment for LINK16 and control UAV, this is the advantage of more powerful engines
Now these types of helos can carry Hellfire and Stinger missiles, both at the same time, more capabilitys means more options means more flexibilty in war time
Obviously the current WZ10 engine is good that's we have 60 in operation, but good military companies make a product and once the production and deliverys is complete a comprehensive upgrade programme is in place and starts as soon as the last unit is dilivered or even earlier
I would expect that China starts it's upgrade of WZ10 as soon as new turbo shaft is in place replacing all engines on current WZ10 expanding the envelope of capabilities of the WZ10
The jewel in the crown of the USAF is the F22 Raptor, last units were just delivered and a upgrade programme until 2023 is now scheduled by Lockheed Martain, your pipeline is always full that is the way modern military machines work
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