What the Heck?! Thread (Closed)

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Anyway....back to the topic. Wow, this French sniper is good, BUT..U.S. Navy SEAL Chris Kyle still holds the record for an actual kill at a little over one mile.

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The story leaves out the details of caliber and rifle but I am guessing that he was not using the 7.62x51MM FR2 or PGM Ultra Ratio my guess based on a 2mile + would be either the PGM Hécate II in 12.7x99 MM BMG or the Sako TRG42 in .338 Lupua although the latter is more for French SF.
Overall this does follow a trend though that being that with modern sniper rifles, technologies and training Military Snipers can reach out and touch someone from ranges that were once only obtainable only with Artillery fire.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

Hate to say this but at the end it's just for bragging rights since they will not consider it possible in a live hit to kill situation where a team drops in to take down a target behind enemy lines.

 

[Equation]

Hate to say this but at the end it's just for bragging rights since they will not consider it possible in a live hit to kill situation where a team drops in to take down a target behind enemy lines.

It doesn't matter, because it's about setting the bar higher to improve one's sniper program. Plus it allows for greater understanding about ballistic trajectory and such in any real world condition that can be applied to real combat situation.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Well to a degree, the current record for longest ranged kill is 2475meters by Craig Harrison of the British Army in Afghanistan 2009. This shot and in fact the shots that it beat to take the record all have one thing in common. They were taken by snipers in support of friendly forces under fire. It was not a preplanned affair but a emergency response.
Any preplanned hits would probably have been made at closer ranges and unreported for security purposes.

 

[plawolf]

All these world record sniper kills were against insurgents. Against armoured targets, you need a headshot rather than a torso hit, which would drastically increase the difficulty and reduce the reliable range.

At such ranges, you also need your mark standing stock still, and can't have any changes in wind, humidity etc throughout the bullet flight time.

Possible, but unreliable. If you really wanted someone dead at that range, you are better off calling in an artillery barrage or armed drone to start with.

 

[Equation]

All true gentlemen I agreed, but what I'm trying to say is the human factor of control breathing method, concentration, and discipline applies to the skills of the sniper in practice to like a basketball player practicing free throw shooting and 3 point shootings. It's about muscle memory and understanding one's skill to apply that in the real world.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

All these world record sniper kills were against insurgents. Against armoured targets, you need a headshot rather than a torso hit, which would drastically increase the difficulty and reduce the reliable range.

At such ranges, you also need your mark standing stock still, and can't have any changes in wind, humidity etc throughout the bullet flight time.

Possible, but unreliable. If you really wanted someone dead at that range, you are better off calling in an artillery barrage or armed drone to start with.

At those ranges the bullet is on a trajectory where in it's basically dropping on the target. Again as I said the situations where in the last three longest range kills took place were reactions of allied forces were under fire and the sniper reacted. The enemy killed in the Kyle shot (which was not one of the record holders) was against a mortar spotter. The Harrison shot was three shots two for gunners the third to destroy the Heavy Machine gun they were operating.
Yes there is modern body armor. But against .300WM, .338 Norma or Lupua, 12.7x99mm or bigger like the 14.5mm or 20mm rifles conventional body armor is out classed. Even 7.62x54mm fired by the Dragonov is a stretch for all but the latest generation of ballistic armor, and that's against the vest not the helmet conventional ballistic helmets aren't classed against rifle rounds. Only the latest US, Russian (maybe) and PLA. Are said to be.

 

[plawolf]

Yes there is modern body armor. But against .300WM, .338 Norma or Lupua, 12.7x99mm or bigger like the 14.5mm or 20mm rifles conventional body armor is out classed.

Even at 2miles+?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

At those ranges all but the last three really need apply. 12.7x99mm BMG was originally developed as a ant armor round for the M2 and was used for the main armament of American fighter aircraft until the late 1950s.
The Russian 12.7x108 also used by the PLA is even more impressive both it and its American cousin were used as antiaircraft guns and were rated to punch through fighters at 2 miles in a dog fight.
The 14.5mm round is used by at least 2 rifles and is even bigger and again a antiaircraft round.
The 20mm round is used in a South African rifle and is the same round used in the USNs Phalanx.
All designed to destroy non organic armored targets at extreme ranges. Yes the latter two are Cannons! But they have been employed as sniper weapons.


I forgot to add the .408 Cheytac as well which differs as it was a purpose built long range sniper round.
The 12.7mm rounds and the Cheytac are employed widely in so called "Ant material rifles" like the Barret M107A1 and the Chinese AMR1 they are man portable to a degree and employed with sniper units world wide.

 

[plawolf]

At those ranges all but the last three really need apply. 12.7x99mm BMG was originally developed as a ant armor round for the M2 and was used for the main armament of American fighter aircraft until the late 1950s.
The Russian 12.7x108 also used by the PLA is even more impressive both it and its American cousin were used as antiaircraft guns and were rated to punch through fighters at 2 miles in a dog fight.
The 14.5mm round is used by at least 2 rifles and is even bigger and again a antiaircraft round.
The 20mm round is used in a South African rifle and is the same round used in the USNs Phalanx.
All designed to destroy non organic armored targets at extreme ranges. Yes the latter two are Cannons! But they have been employed as sniper weapons.


I forgot to add the .408 Cheytac as well which differs as it was a purpose built long range sniper round.
The 12.7mm rounds and the Cheytac are employed widely in so called "Ant material rifles" like the Barret M107A1 and the Chinese AMR1 they are man portable to a degree and employed with sniper units world wide.

Are all these high cal rounds accurate enough to be used against man sized targets at 2miles+ ranges though?

Sure, most of them were designed as anti-aircraft rounds, but they were also designed to be fired in full auto mode at far larger targets.

Anti-material rifles are primarily designed to hit high-value soft to semi-armoured equipment, not people.

Sure, you can hit man-sized targets, but can you do it at 2miles+?

Seems to me like you got a paradox.

Dedicated sniper rounds are accurate enough to be worth using at such extreme ranges against human targets, but lack the stopping power to still defeat modern body armour at such ranges.

High cal AMRs have the punch to obliterate someone even at those ranges, but are they accurate enough to make sure shots anything more than pot shots?