US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

broadsword

Brigadier
This is merely transportation.

The Pentagon has considered this multiple times. Back in the 1960s and then again in the early 1990s. The USMC even considered i and, iirc, Bill Garrett wrote a position paper on it for them. It involved 'raider units' on suborbital variants of SSTOs where the rocket would take off from a LST and land for an attack. It was deemed far too easy to counter in a combat role: if you can kill ICBMs or even merely scuds, these raider SSTOs would be even easier. Even so, some in the Pentagon haven't lost interest.

Musk has been pushing the idea of suborbital transport for some time. He's been extremely good at getting the gov to finance his plans, whether its space or otherwise. This is just another attempt to get the US Gov to underwrite something he wants.

Then Congress should bankroll the concept.
 

anzha

Senior Member
Registered Member
Then Congress should bankroll the concept.

eh. Seems like a great way to kill troops and waste money. And I'm a total space nut.

Soon Bono was working on a larger Pegasus derived vehicle named Ithacus which in it’s largest variant would have been able to carry a battalion of 1,200 troops to any conflict zone within hours. Proposals included launching these vehicles from converted aircraft carriers, but the entire concept did seem to have a few unaddressed flaws. The noise levels generated on takeoff and landing by the aerospike engines would have been huge to the point of causing structural damage to the vehicle not to mention its human cargo. The practicalities of Ithacus in a battlefield situation also seem highly dubious. Firstly, the descending craft would have provided an easy target for surface to air missiles and the loss of 1,200 troops in a single crash would seem untenable for any army. Secondly, once landed the vehicle would have insufficient fuel to takeoff again, so would have to remain in-situ until at least partial re-fuelling could take place – again a very tempting target for any enemy. The idea soon fell from favour, but didn’t mark the end for Bono’s SSTO plans.

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I can't find Bill's study, sadly.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Or is it an ICBM? The report sounds like it is trying to euphemize the purpose.

Don't consider it as an ICBM. The mission preparation time is high and the launch sites are limited.
Musk's launch systems basically allow:
- cheaper payloads to orbit. so you can have large satellite constellations cheaper.
- huge satellites on orbit for cheap with Falcon 9 Heavy or Starship. like recon satellites.
- launching a payload to any point on the surface of the Earth quickly. but the rocket lander won't have the fuel to get back all the way to the launch site.

These technologies have a lot of applications. Just look at Starlink as an example. You could also use it to place an on-orbit radar network, or even some kind of anti-ballistic missile satellite network.

You could also use it to air supply troops bogged down in the middle of nowhere or to remotely insert troops somewhere. But good luck getting those troops back. It might be possible for the rocket to make a short hop back to, say, a coastal place where they can be picked up by the US Navy, but it won't be able to get back to the original launch site. Current technology limitations make it impossible.
 

anzha

Senior Member
Registered Member
Sure but the C-17 can fly back to the launch site while the SpaceX craft will not.

I would like to see what they have in mind. Is it a pod from orbit? Is partial load of a Starship so it can take off to land somewhere friendly afterwards? or...?

My bet would be a pod - think oversized dragon - that comes down wherever they want. However, a C-17 payload would be significantly less than the starship is /supposedly/ going to do to orbit. That's what makes this possible they might be doing something else.

A demo in 2021 would mean it would be soon and we can tell what they have in mind.

That said, I think this is an overly expensive idea that is would potentially kill soldiers all over the place: ABM defenses would eat this design up.

IMO, this is Musk getting the gov to pay for what he wants:

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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
I would like to see what they have in mind. Is it a pod from orbit? Is partial load of a Starship so it can take off to land somewhere friendly afterwards? or...?

My bet would be a pod - think oversized dragon - that comes down wherever they want. However, a C-17 payload would be significantly less than the starship is /supposedly/ going to do to orbit. That's what makes this possible they might be doing something else.

A demo in 2021 would mean it would be soon and we can tell what they have in mind.

That said, I think this is an overly expensive idea that is would potentially kill soldiers all over the place: ABM defenses would eat this design up.

IMO, this is Musk getting the gov to pay for what he wants:

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No kidding. This is a really expensive way to transport anything to anywhere.

I think it will be a partial load of Starship. A pod from orbit implies you have some sort of space station you can use as a supply or troop stationing point. That would be expensive an problematic. You would need to supply the space station and for the case of in orbit troops you would have to face issues like bone and muscle degeneration while stationed in zero gravity. So it's impractical.

It will just be a point to point transport.
 

anzha

Senior Member
Registered Member
No kidding. This is a really expensive way to transport anything to anywhere.

Currently and for the foreseeable future, completely true.

I think it will be a partial load of Starship. A pod from orbit implies you have some sort of space station you can use as a supply or troop stationing point. That would be expensive an problematic. You would need to supply the space station and for the case of in orbit troops you would have to face issues like bone and muscle degeneration while stationed in zero gravity. So it's impractical.

You could launch and place the pod in orbit in an on-demand manner and it is dropped from there. You don't need to have stay time. The starship stays up and then returns to landing point.

It will just be a point to point transport.

Quite probably. If you do that though, you end up with - as you noted - what to do with the Starship once it has landed.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Sometimes DARPA plays to much HALO.
This is a study not a procurement. Ideas like it have been kicked around for decades and with the launch of the Space Force the Crazy idea gates have opened and anything seems possible.
The SF it’s self is being spoken of by some as a political stunt, others as a long overdue consolidation of multiple redundant space programs or as fighting the PLARF in orbit with space battleships and starship troopers.
So is this likely probably not. That said some aspects might transition to practical.
 
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