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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Every time the root cause was the same : insufficient training
I agree 100%.

I think it is safe to say with 9 weeks of training no one can safely navigate a ship.
Boot camp is nine weeks. All sailors receive much more training after boot camp. It's called A school and C school. These schools give the newbys training in their selected training.

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The lack of training on the ships you mentioned was a command issue. I honestly do not think it is a navy wide situation. Those ships chain of commands FAILED to keep those shipmates trained in their ratings and they lacked discipline in certain areas. Fortunately they were trained properly in Damage Control.
 

Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
I agree 100%.



Boot camp is nine weeks. All sailors receive much more training after boot camp. It's called A school and C school. These schools give the newbys training in their selected training.

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The lack of training on the ships you mentioned was a command issue. I honestly do not think it is a navy wide situation. Those ships chain of commands FAILED to keep those shipmates trained in their ratings and they lacked discipline in certain areas. Fortunately they were trained properly in Damage Control.
I think it is a basic difference between how we view the training.

For me the job of the manager/ business owner / military officer is to improve the skills of his/her staff, and to qualify them periodically.

One , and not the best, method could be the formal training, but that can gives only a fraction of the required skills, and would not ensure that the given person has the basic capabilities for the work.

In the McCain case the person wasn't qualified for the given ship controls, no one checked his/her skills, and no one took care of his/her training and development.


And considering that for every accident there are one/two magnitude higher number of near miss, we can be sure about that this is pervasive in the USA NAVY.

And the root cause of it is the overused/ overstretched assets, used beyond the designed capacity of the ships , crew and maintenance.


There are countless examples for successful businesses / military units those showing great success with inferior weapons but with superior training.
 

AndrewS

Captain
Registered Member
I think it is a basic difference between how we view the training.

For me the job of the manager/ business owner / military officer is to improve the skills of his/her staff, and to qualify them periodically.

One , and not the best, method could be the formal training, but that can gives only a fraction of the required skills, and would not ensure that the given person has the basic capabilities for the work.

In the McCain case the person wasn't qualified for the given ship controls, no one checked his/her skills, and no one took care of his/her training and development.


And considering that for every accident there are one/two magnitude higher number of near miss, we can be sure about that this is pervasive in the USA NAVY.

And the root cause of it is the overused/ overstretched assets, used beyond the designed capacity of the ships , crew and maintenance.


There are countless examples for successful businesses / military units those showing great success with inferior weapons but with superior training.
My read is that the training issue is limited to 7th fleet which was based in Japan.

Why were those few ships constantly undermanned, whilst the much larger number of stateside ships were fully manned?

Plus 7th fleet gets used first because it is forward deployed, and those few ships are trying to keep up with whatever North Korea or China do.
 

Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
My read is that the training issue is limited to 7th fleet which was based in Japan.

Why were those few ships constantly undermanned, whilst the much larger number of stateside ships were fully manned?

Plus 7th fleet gets used first because it is forward deployed, and those few ships are trying to keep up with whatever North Korea or China do.
This is a leadership / organisational culture issue.
 

AndrewS

Captain
Registered Member
This is a leadership / organisational culture issue.
Not really.

I see it as the 7th Fleet in Japan being forgotten about.

It's easy to happen when there's only a few ships.
And because of the time zone difference, San Diego and Japan work separate office hours.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Not really.

I see it as the 7th Fleet in Japan being forgotten about.

It's easy to happen when there's only a few ships.
And because of the time zone difference, San Diego and Japan work separate office hours.
No no no.:rolleyes: US Navy Pacific Fleet is headquartered in Pearl Harbor.

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And they are certainly not forgotten. Time means nothing. There are messages, orders & directives shooting back and forth constantly. I'm sue COMPACFLT has his eyes,ears and hands on the pulse of the 7th Fleet.
 

AndrewS

Captain
Registered Member
No no no.:rolleyes: US Navy Pacific Fleet is headquartered in Pearl Harbor.

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And they are certainly not forgotten. Time means nothing. There are messages, orders & directives shooting back and forth constantly. I'm sue COMPACFLT has his eyes,ears and hands on the pulse of the 7th Fleet.
The statements below support the 7th fleet being forgotten about.
Why was it the only fleet that was undermanned?

And if you read the full investigation, it doesn't look like the 2 COMPACFLT commanders have the pulse of the 7th fleet.

They put together a troubling statistical picture: The fleet’s pace of operations was the highest in the Navy. Training was down. Certifications, which crews received after proving they were prepared to handle crucial warfighting duties, had dropped from 93 percent completed in 2014 to 62 percent in 2016. That year, only two of the fleet’s 11 destroyers and cruisers received all recommended maintenance. One ship only got a quarter of its scheduled upkeep.
...
Aucoin had directed an aide to monitor manpower in the fleet, coding vessels green if they had enough sailors; those with fewer than needed, yellow; and those where the situation was dire, red. For months, much of the 7th Fleet had been red and yellow. Frustrated, he asked to see the same chart for U.S.-based ships. They were all green.


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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The situation of the 7th fleet is rectified. The situation is improving even more.

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When did any 7th Fleet ship miss a commitment? None that I know of.

Why was it the only fleet that was undermanned?
The US Navy has an overseas screening process which is quite intensive. A percentage of sailors cannot pass this screening usually because of legal, financial or medical issue. Making it tough for Commander Naval Personnel to fill these positions.

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Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
The situation of the 7th fleet is rectified. The situation is improving even more.

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When did any 7th Fleet ship miss a commitment? None that I know of.



The US Navy has an overseas screening process which is quite intensive. A percentage of sailors cannot pass this screening usually because of legal, financial or medical issue. Making it tough for Commander Naval Personnel to fill these positions.

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So, the observations about the USA NAVY the next :
-the visual appearance of ships deteriorated over time.
-The basic, not possible to hide deficiencies / mishaps exploded in recent time


The analysis provided by this site :
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Showing that the secretaries/senior officers in practice lied about the status of the fleet.
And yes, they did all commitment, by increasing the maintenance / training backlog and amortising elevated speed the assets.

So, how can you explain that the USS Boxer (5th fleet) is in the same state like the ships of the 7th fleet ?


And if the number of commitments not decreased ,the available money/resources the same then how can the training/maintenance issue improve ?

Finally, what is the guarantee about that the new commanders /admirals doesn't lie to support they carriers ?
 

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