New update on the NGAD by Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works:
Also included are the CCA and the alleged SR-72.
Also included are the CCA and the alleged SR-72.
US F/A-XX and F-X 6th Gen Aircraft News Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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Again a teaser for Boeing's NGAD fighter ... or at least a fancy placeholder!
So much on "canards can't be stealth"!
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This comment takes the prize lol
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
If you watch the video to the end you also see a conard less version. I took this screenshot.Again a teaser for Boeing's NGAD fighter ... or at least a fancy placeholder!
So much on "canards can't be stealth"!
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This plane form shows no mustache.
My guess is that the Conard concept is Boeing’s Naval NGAD the F/A-XX which has less an emphasis on Stealth. And being a carrier based fighter would require more low speed agility for carrier landings.
Where the Conard less is there concept for USAF which would favor stealth and high altitude flight performance.
Alternatively we see Sikorsky/Boeing’s Defiant from the FVL competition in the video. That lost the competition to the Boeing V280 Valor. So it may also be that it’s an older discarded concept. It should be noted Boeing concept art has gone back and forth on Conards. Some have then others Shave them.
It's just show how far NGAD is.. which is conceptual phase where you will have large amounts of concept drawings. At this stage it's almost like a dream where the engineers are touting and considering every possible options to meet the requirement.
These concepts is then weighed and selected for preliminary design and then detail design.. at detail design, the design is -frozen- for prototype manufacturing and testing.
But the fact that at least some people i know got noisy because of it is.. well perhaps that's what 13 years nonstop bashing on J-20 would give..
These concepts is then weighed and selected for preliminary design and then detail design.. at detail design, the design is -frozen- for prototype manufacturing and testing.
But the fact that at least some people i know got noisy because of it is.. well perhaps that's what 13 years nonstop bashing on J-20 would give..
I have not seen any evidence that they flew prototypes for NGAD either. Not even demonstrators.
They claim they "flew" prototypes. But I think this was purely done in the virtual domain. i.e. a frickin' computer simulation.
Eventually there will be a fly off of prototypes from the several proposals. Then there will be a down select. The production aircraft will be designed and it will get manufactured. Just like the ATF program. It won't enter service before 2030 that is for sure. I would be surprised if it happened before 2035.
You can bet that China and Russia already started making 6th generation concept airframes as well. I have already seen concept designs for both. But the US is much more advanced in terms of propulsion research for a 6th generation. Only now are we seeing Chinese and Russian 5th generation engines come into service.
They claim they "flew" prototypes. But I think this was purely done in the virtual domain. i.e. a frickin' computer simulation.
Eventually there will be a fly off of prototypes from the several proposals. Then there will be a down select. The production aircraft will be designed and it will get manufactured. Just like the ATF program. It won't enter service before 2030 that is for sure. I would be surprised if it happened before 2035.
You can bet that China and Russia already started making 6th generation concept airframes as well. I have already seen concept designs for both. But the US is much more advanced in terms of propulsion research for a 6th generation. Only now are we seeing Chinese and Russian 5th generation engines come into service.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I put a bit more faith in them having flown demonstration planes. But obviously not the total package. Remember the USAF and USN have their own known but controlled airspace and airbases Groom lake and China lake where we know more about what people think is going on that what actually is.
As to the computer simulations those are more and more important as they allow development in a faster pace. Boeing’s concept shown above is in a video showcasing how they are trying to transition from the old school design model to a new one that doesn’t just ease development but also has ramifications for maintenance and manufacturing. The “digital” twin means that the fighter built will transition away unexpected design issues by ensuring problems are identified before that happens. By turning repairs into preventive maintenance and easing manufacturing of aircraft as much more of the work can be automated.
Farther as more and more about sixths generation concepts emerge the less we are seeing phasers and photon torpedoes and the more we are seeing missiles and sensors. Less revolutionary more evolutionary. Which is why I put more faith in it. The airframes are not the big deal here.
It’s about the sensors, the defenses, the ability to communicate and integrate. Manned fighters can’t maneuver beyond what they can today without killing the pilots so hyper maneuvering is pointless. Hypersonic fighters have limited utility. so why bother?Extreme altitude is nice, but it’s not actually meant to fight Space aliens…
Stealth have taken the place as why try and knife fight in a phone booth when you can snipe? Node and sensor. Find the other guy first and kill before he realizes he’s in trouble.
Finally The US has the edge in a number of arenas in this category. Not just propulsion. But sensors, systems, low observability. This combination with the changes in manufacturing being looked at means that the U.S. is taking this very seriously.
What this really boils down to is that we are in the middle of a transition. The cloud age had replaced the Information Age and it’s pushing a whole new concept of the industry and design development process. That’s part of sixth generation.
China I have no doubt is deeply interested and concerned about the potential of NGAD & F/Axx though they are not the end all be all of the USAF/USN they will be important assets in the U.S. tool box. However the Ball is in the U.S. court. The Chinese can concept but they are working on major updates to J20, moving J35 from prototypes to practical applications. They are still doing a lot of Cetchup. It seems at this point like GCAP will be flying demonstration before the Chinese.
The Russians on the other hand are in no position to even doodle a sixth generation fighter. They haven’t gotten SU57 into serious production, the few they have are mostly prototypes. Even then the RCS is by the Russians one admission closer to that of a 4.5 Gen fighter. A step up vs the Flanker, Fulcrum or Foxbat but a giant flying billboard compared to the more numerous western counterparts. The SU75 is marketing materials at this point questionable if it will even fly this decade. It’s better than the Iranian farce but still far behind. We haven’t even started yet on the other Russian dreams. PAK DP, PAK DA. Unless Alien Space Bats drop into the Kremlins presidential apartments for a spot of Polonium tea, You will see the French FCAS in production before the Russian.
As to the computer simulations those are more and more important as they allow development in a faster pace. Boeing’s concept shown above is in a video showcasing how they are trying to transition from the old school design model to a new one that doesn’t just ease development but also has ramifications for maintenance and manufacturing. The “digital” twin means that the fighter built will transition away unexpected design issues by ensuring problems are identified before that happens. By turning repairs into preventive maintenance and easing manufacturing of aircraft as much more of the work can be automated.
Farther as more and more about sixths generation concepts emerge the less we are seeing phasers and photon torpedoes and the more we are seeing missiles and sensors. Less revolutionary more evolutionary. Which is why I put more faith in it. The airframes are not the big deal here.
It’s about the sensors, the defenses, the ability to communicate and integrate. Manned fighters can’t maneuver beyond what they can today without killing the pilots so hyper maneuvering is pointless. Hypersonic fighters have limited utility. so why bother?Extreme altitude is nice, but it’s not actually meant to fight Space aliens…
Stealth have taken the place as why try and knife fight in a phone booth when you can snipe? Node and sensor. Find the other guy first and kill before he realizes he’s in trouble.
Finally The US has the edge in a number of arenas in this category. Not just propulsion. But sensors, systems, low observability. This combination with the changes in manufacturing being looked at means that the U.S. is taking this very seriously.
What this really boils down to is that we are in the middle of a transition. The cloud age had replaced the Information Age and it’s pushing a whole new concept of the industry and design development process. That’s part of sixth generation.
China I have no doubt is deeply interested and concerned about the potential of NGAD & F/Axx though they are not the end all be all of the USAF/USN they will be important assets in the U.S. tool box. However the Ball is in the U.S. court. The Chinese can concept but they are working on major updates to J20, moving J35 from prototypes to practical applications. They are still doing a lot of Cetchup. It seems at this point like GCAP will be flying demonstration before the Chinese.
The Russians on the other hand are in no position to even doodle a sixth generation fighter. They haven’t gotten SU57 into serious production, the few they have are mostly prototypes. Even then the RCS is by the Russians one admission closer to that of a 4.5 Gen fighter. A step up vs the Flanker, Fulcrum or Foxbat but a giant flying billboard compared to the more numerous western counterparts. The SU75 is marketing materials at this point questionable if it will even fly this decade. It’s better than the Iranian farce but still far behind. We haven’t even started yet on the other Russian dreams. PAK DP, PAK DA. Unless Alien Space Bats drop into the Kremlins presidential apartments for a spot of Polonium tea, You will see the French FCAS in production before the Russian.
No doubt that at the very least a scale model or more likely, several scaled models have flown. As for full scale prototype, someone please dig through recent UFO sightings in Nevada. We are bound to find something interesting.
I think the budget line items have more than made it plain tech development has been going full tilt and if the B-21 program is a guide, we ought to be near a selection. The finances would definitely indicate something has flown, but what size and how many and all that isn't at all clear.