Ukrainian War Developments

what do chinese people think about the world order ? what China -russia can do with the western order leading by US ?
With ukraina war , Will old world-order end ??

Vichysoy said:

what do chinese people think about the world order ? what China -russia can do with the western order leading by US ?
Will old world-order end ??

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What could China or Russia do if the West is intent on destroying the very world order they created themselves?

tonyget said:

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I think we discussed this a few pages back.

Jingle Bells said:

Except Europe and Russia are actually on the same boat, while the US is the big bad wolf out there, wanting to eat Europe for dinner.

Which is not a good thing for Russia. Russia's true family is Europe (Germany and France). Russian--FrancoGerman is one commonwealth of interest. While the USA is the financial apex-predator of the world. USA is literally the Wolves of Wall Street searching for capitals to consume all over the world. Now the USA is inflicting a "civil war" in the Russian--FrancoGerman commonwealth, while reaping the benefit of consuming EU's wealth. Russia as the resources and energy provider, certainly won't feel the pain nearly as fast as Europe will feel. But if Europe is on the route of long term decline, it won't be good for Russia as well.

Of course, Russia has little to lose, because Russia still has South Asia, East Asia and West Asia to engage with.

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I am not sure all those countries are in same boat. EU decline may give incentives to Europhiles Russians to take jobs back in Russia there are several millions of them. Samsung used to store alot of appliances and electronics in big warehouse in Russia to dispatch rest of Europe. the point is more countries will trust Russia for storing products and wealth seeing they not randomly seize physical products on outside direction. it is Europe hysteria that is damaging it.

Jingle Bells said:

Sure, except at a very minimal amount.

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Russia do yearly exercises. Russia used to send tremendous cargo flights when Syrian war was at peak. at that time avoiding Turkish airspace. so long distance from multiple bases flying through several countries.
Russia delivered S-400 through 72 cargo air flights to Turkey. this give you idea how intensely they use airpower.

Jingle Bells said:

Except de-globalization is initiated not by Russia, but by China and USA. Like I said in my last reply to you, the USSR's original more "distributed" way of planning and "landscaping" all over the country would actually be the trend of the future, in terms of physical layout of MIC and other industry. However, in order for Russia to quickly dash into the future and reap the benefit of USSR's "ahead-of-time" industrial landscape, Russia would have to invest heavily on implementation of 5G, AI and industry 4.0, etc, in her current infrastructure.

Russians are very good at research, innovation and management. But in order to realize their grand future, they will need A LOT of time and money invested. I mean an order of magnitude of more investments than what Russia is putting in now.

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by not following globalization Russia is only nation that can make alot of aviation products 100% domestically. they were the first to fully vaccinate soldiers / Rostec that ensure training and deployments of equipment for this campaign. this Belarus was in additional axis that was never trailed on this scale. they also developed AESA radar satellite by same company that produce tactical missiles so the skill set in an organization are very diverse. Countries who are weak in fundamental science make dysfunctional policies to attract best and brightest and make the residem in an expensive city with high salary before there brain can function on innovation.

Jingle Bells said:

A fully modernized Su-25 would be nice to see. We will look forward to see whether this war could let Su-25 prove its worth in modern and future warfare.


Well, let's hope these projects are fruitful. Because cutting innovation is not without risks.

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these are battle proven systems from desert heat to extreme cold of arctic. i doubt any one will replicate it and that technological gap will increase once modernization and training implemented on fundamentally sound platforms.

GodRektsNoobs said:

What could China or Russia do if the West is intent on destroying the very world order they created themselves? .

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That’s not true. The world order they created is the one in which specifically the US exercises permanent military and financial hegemony, Not one in which everyone play by the same clearly defined rules, and if someone persistently plays the game by the rules better than the US, the US would gracefully cede its hegemonic position.

The old world order has not ended. It has just become more barefaced.

Ukraine’s general staff reports that Russia has lost 19,500 soldiers and 58,500 wounded. These numbers are so ridiculous. That would mean Russia lost 40% of the 200k invasion force. The Pentagon has put a more realistic number of 4K dead and 7k wounded. I think the Ukrainians are projected and that’s their true losses. If those losses were true then Ukraine is two weeks away from Moscow.

US DoD briefing:


ISW Update:

FADH1791 said:

Ukraine’s general staff reports that Russia has lost 19,500 soldiers and 58,500 wounded. These numbers are so ridiculous. That would mean Russia lost 40% of the 200k invasion force. The Pentagon has put a more realistic number of 4K dead and 7k wounded. I think the Ukrainians are projected and that’s their true losses. If those losses were true then Ukraine is two weeks away from Moscow.

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Strange numbers... we don't see field hospitals full of wounded anywhere. You cannot hide 58 500 wounded...

Atomicfrog said:

Strange numbers... we don't see field hospitals full of wounded anywhere. You cannot hide 58 500 wounded...

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Obviously the Russians are using their mobile crematoriums to cremate the wounded... while alive.

Only have a second to post. Still at work. Saw this and laughed:


Schadenfreude in a way for someone with family lost everything in 2014.