Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.

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Dannhill

Junior Member
Regarding the missing fascists from Ukraine's Rada:

"The major Ukrainian far-right party Svoboda did not get into parliament in recent elections, falling only 0.3% short of the required minimum of 5%. It was not able to repeat its success of 2012 when it got more than 10%, exploiting the image of the most radical party against the former president Viktor Yanukovych in contrast to discredited moderate opposition.

The party’s support might have been boosted by anti-Yanukovych feelings but it shouldn’t be wholly dismissed as a protest vote; the 4.7% gain is much higher than the 0.8% in 2007 during the last parliamentary elections before his rule. Besides, the Right Sector, made up of fringe ultra-nationalist groups before the mass street violence began in Kiev in January, was able to form a party and get 1.8%, obviously taking some votes from Svoboda.

It is short-sighted and formalistic to conclude that the Ukrainian far right is insignificant based on the lack of electoral success. The rhetoric of many politicians which could be called centrist or even liberal has moved significantly to the right, competing for the increasingly patriotic and even nationalist voters. There were a number of incidents of hate speech used even by top Ukrainian politicians such as the minister of interior, Arsen Avakov, referring to Donetsk separatists as “colorados”, a pejorative, dehumanising label which compares them with the Colorado beetle due to their orange and black St George’s ribbons."

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Also, the fascists don't need to be in the Rada when they have high ranked supporters able to put their own people into important posts.

"Most alarming, however, is the role of Ukraine’s interior minister, Arsen Avakov. Instead of reining in these fighters, conducting background checks on their records and reassigning those who pass muster, he instead has offered them new heavy weapons, including tanks and armored personnel carriers, and given them enhanced brigade status. Amazingly, in September he even named a leader of the neo-Nazi Azov brigade to head the police in the Kiev region."

And we should not underestimate the danger these fascists posed to Europe itself.

"Ukrainian police stopped a group of armed men from entering Europe's largest nuclear power plant, located in southeastern Ukraine. In video footage allegedly showing the attempted break-in, the men say they are members of the Right Sector group."

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the most recent views (after "Batman" and his Protective Detail had been killed http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/ukraine-revolt-civil-war-23-7103.html#post321295) on internal affairs in
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by "Cassad":
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(graphic! plus you would see a Swastika fan, previously in the unit of "Batman", now at the Donetsk Airport fighting with "Motorola")
it's also interesting to read the official press-release, entitled
"Members Of Special Units Annihilated The Gang Leader "Batman" And Detained His Dangerous Accomplices",
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by
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about the ... arrest attempt (I noticed a Russian blogger said
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this reminded him about
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)

EDIT
most recently gazeta.ru announced
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until now six members of the unit of "Batman" had been arrested because allegedly torturing local citizens in
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
... It's really disgusting that US still supports nazi ideology...
Piotr, you have been warned about this in the past.

The US does not support Nazi ideology. This does not mean that there are no fascist leaning people in America )or many other places for that matter)...but saying that the US as a whole supports such ideology is a wholly different statement.

I am sorry for your father's experiences. My only Uncle on my Mom's side was killed by the Nazis in 1944. Most people whose parents and grandparents fought the Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s have relatives who were injured, imprisoned, or killed in that fight.

But none of that warrants your assertions that the US supports Nazi ideology (it emphatically does not) or the clear fraudulent documents you have posted about the Zaporozhye nuclear reactor.

FOUR WEEK SUSPENSION.

Please, when you return, do not make such assertions or post such documents in the future without thoroughly vetting them.

This thread is about the Civil War/Crisis in the Ukraine. IT IS NOT a US, RUSSIA, or EU bashing, dirt digging, or attack thread.

Do not respond to this moderation.
 
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delft

Brigadier
From RT.com:
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‘Something wrong with Ukraine, EU’: Czech leader condemns ‘Nazi torchlight parade’
Published time: January 04, 2015 23:53
Edited time: January 05, 2015 01:28

The chilling slogans and a flagrant demonstration of nationalist symbols during the neo-Nazi march in Kiev reminded the Czech President Milos Zeman of Hitler's Germany. He said something was “wrong” both with Ukraine and the EU which didn’t condemn it.

Zeman was commenting on the appalling scenes, which showed thousands of Ukrainian nationalists holding a torchlight procession across the Ukrainian capital on Thursday to commemorate the 106th birthday of Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator and the Ukraine nationalist movement’s leader during World War II.

"There is something wrong with Ukraine,” the Czech Republic's leadertold radio F1 on Sunday. “Yesterday evening I was browsing the Internet and discovered a video showing the demonstration on Kiev’s Maidan on January 1.”

“These demonstrators carried portraits of Stepan Bandera, which reminded me of Reinhard Heydrich,” Zeman said referring to one of the main architects of the Holocaust and at the time a Reich-Protector of Czech Republic’s territories.

“The parade itself was organized similar to Nazi torchlight parades, where participants shouted the slogan: ‘Death to the Poles, Jews and communists without mercy,”Zeman explained.

Bandera was the head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), which collaborated with Nazi Germany, and was involved in the ethnic cleansing of Poles, Jews and Russians.

“Glory to the nation! Death to enemies!", "Ukraine belongs to Ukrainians" and "Bandera will return and restore order", were the repeated slogans during the neo-Nazi march. Some of the participants wore World War II Bandera's insurgent army uniforms while others paraded with red and black nationalist flags.

The Czech President said something is “wrong” not only with Ukraine, but also with the European Union, which did not protest or condemn this action.

"Don't forget that Bandera is considered a national hero in Ukraine, his image is hanging in the Maidan, his statue is in Lvov. In reality, he was a mass murderer," Zeman said last summer on Czech Television.

Russia too has on numerous occasions condemned the resurgence of neo-Nazi traditions in Ukraine and considers such displays of militant nationalism as means to fabricate history.

“Torch-lit marches in Ukraine demonstrate that it is continuing to move along the path of the Nazis!” Konstantin Dolgov, the foreign ministry's human rights envoy, said last week. “And this is in the center of civilized Europe!"
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
From RT.com:
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Delft, the story is full of innuendo and leading statements meant to make this appear to be something it was not, and flag its abject bias.

For example:

“The parade itself was organized similar to Nazi torchlight parades, where participants shouted the slogan: ‘Death to the Poles, Jews and communists without mercy,”Zeman explained.
This makes it sound like the march itself was saying those horrible slogans...which it was not!

The Nazi marches in World War II said those things and this reporter is saying that the march was organized "similar" to that. Funny how using the term 'similar," conveys such a false impression.

The fact is, when the Nazis first marched into the Ukraine, many Ukrainians welcomed them...only to find they were a bunch of tyrants that were as bad and worse than the Russians had been, They also then began to fight...but were slaughtered by the Nazis and were ethnically cleansed, up to and including plain Ukrainians.

Did some like Bernard who was fighting against the Russians collaborate? Of course they did. It happened in France and almost everywhere else as well.

But to try and paint this gathering as a "Nazi" march with attachments to those slogans this guy quotes from the 1930s is beyond the pale.

We can find articles to say almost anything we want.

But we have made it plain that here on SD we will not paint differing sides of these crisis with such broad brush strokes (like Nazis), on either side...whether it be the Ukrainians and the EU or the Russians and Eastern UK...o differing sides in other confrontations.

Stick to the facts about the confrontation and away from all of the ideology and politics surrounding it.

Consider this a warning.

Please do not bring articles that do such things again.
.
 

wtlh

Junior Member
Delft, the story is full of innuendo and leading statements meant to make this appear to be something it was not, and flag its abject bias.

For example:

This makes it sound like the march itself was saying those horrible slogans...which it was not!

The Nazi marches in World War II said those things and this reporter is saying that the march was organized "similar" to that. Funny how using the term 'similar," conveys such a false impression.

The fact is, when the Nazis first marched into the Ukraine, many Ukrainians welcomed them...only to find they were a bunch of tyrants that were as bad and worse than the Russians had been, They also then began to fight...but were slaughtered by the Nazis and were ethnically cleansed, up to and including plain Ukrainians.

Did some like Bernard who was fighting against the Russians collaborate? Of course they did. It happened in France and almost everywhere else as well.

But to try and paint this gathering as a "Nazi" march with attachments to those slogans this guy quotes from the 1930s is beyond the pale.

We can find articles to say almost anything we want.

But we have made it plain that here on SD we will not paint differing sides of these crisis with such broad brush strokes (like Nazis), on either side...whether it be the Ukrainians and the EU or the Russians and Eastern UK...o differing sides in other confrontations.

Stick to the facts about the confrontation and away from all of the ideology and politics surrounding it.

Consider this a warning.

Please do not bring articles that do such things again.
.

I have just read that article, and IMHO, I think this criticism is rather harsh.

1. The report was quoting an opinion expressed by Czech President Milos Zeman. Unless this was fabricated, this is not an innuendo by the article journalist.

2. Given that Zeman is the President of an important European country and a member of the EU, he is not some backwater radical that the RT journalists just dug up, and public opinions of a national leader---right or wrong---warranted reporting.

The report had almost no writer's own analysis or even interpretations. It just contained quotes from Zeman and other official bodies. The only thing I can see from the writer's own adjectives is the first sentence, in the use of the word "chilling". I have seen far worse cases in the MSM.

I therefore respectively give my own two cents.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
wth said:
I think this criticism is rather harsh.
It was not so much criticism as moderation, as the BOLD BLUE indicates. You are new here...please read the rules regarding moderation on SD.

wth said:
...he only thing I can see from the writer's own adjectives is the first sentence, in the use of the word "chilling". I have seen far worse cases in the MSM.
No, there is far more that is clearly absolutely subjective in that article and in his statements.

wth said:
I therefore respectively give my own two cents.
I do not care who offered the advise. It was clearly slanted as I indicated, and it interjected things into the forum that are clearly outside the purpose or the intent of the forum.

Delft knows this and has been warned in the past regarding it, including on this very thread.

wth, we have a rule on SD which clearly states that moderation is not open for open debate or the "two cents" of others. If you have an issue with it, follow the rules and contact the Froum Moderators. Please read those rules and follow them. As it is...you have your response.
 
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