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Greta discussion gents. I'm 100% sure the US would back the UK on any sort of "action" against Iran.

I don't really understand how the RN got caught off guard in this situation. It seems to me the Cornwall should have been in palne site of the ship it's crewmen were boarding.

Some months ago off the Horn of Africa some pirates tried to attack a USN RHIB..lets just say two were killed and they weren't "yanks". Article say one was killed but later another pirate died.

bd popeye said:

I don't really understand how the RN got caught off guard in this situation.

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It can only be down to two things:

1. The captain made a bad call. He decided there was no need to back them up - the helicopter was re-deployed before the operation was over.

2. Overstretch. Cornwall couldn't provide close-in support because the ship had to be somewhere else - same applies to the helo.

It is also possible Cornwall couldn't move in due to problems over water's depth, but that wouldn't explain why the Lynx was sent elsewhere. So it would still be a case of bad judgement or overstretch.

As I have mentioned previously my son is serving on active duty with the USN. I know on his first deployment in 2001 before 9/11 his ship was assigned the type duty the Cornwall is on now. According to him USN ships has to stand off a certian distance when the boarding party is deployed. And all gun mounts are manned. I have know idea how far away a USN ship would be positioned in such an operation.

bd popeye said:

According to him USN ships has to stand off a certian distance when the boarding party is deployed.

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What if the waters are too shallow for the ship to get that close? That could have been the situation here.

FuManChu said:

What if the waters are too shallow for the ship to get that close? That could have been the situation here.

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Helo is probally deployed. I do not know all the details. I'm pretty sure that water around those ports is deep enough. After all supertankers and larger conatiner ship daily transverse that aera daily.

But I do know this,as posted by someone in another forum. I'm sure he's from the UK. 100% sure in fact!

When confronted with a comment about why this situation has not happend with Americans.

That's because the Yanks routinely shoot first and ask questions later - the Iranians know better than to try it on with them.

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bd popeye said:

Helo is probally deployed. I do not know all the details.

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Which makes the question of why the Lynx was sent elsewhere all the more important - complacency or overstretch?

I'm pretty sure that water around those ports is deep enough. After all supertankers and larger conatiner ship daily transverse that aera daily.

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The boat they stopped was fairly small - could have been going in a shallow area.

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Someone was obviously being very cheeky!

Its quite possible that the Revolutionary Guards, with their own command structure, did this without authorization. I believe that's the vase because of the demand that the US relase captured Guards personnel. It seems to me that the Guards are trying to "get back some of their own" and "strike a blow at the infidel operating in Muslim waters"; the Guards are much more radical than the regular military and that sort of motivation applied to such a petty act would make sense to them.

I certainly hope that this issue is out of Guards control now, giving cooler heads a chance to prevail.

By the way, I too hope for the safe and peaceful return of these sailors and am angry about blatant escalation by the Iranians.

Finn McCool said:

Its quite possible that the Revolutionary Guards, with their own command structure, did this without authorization.

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The thing is that they were taken to Tehran almost immediately. They're actually on holiday at the moment, so that rather implies someone at the centre knew this was going to happen. Also there have been official comments that these people were engaged "in illegal and suspicious activities" - that rather suggests they're not going to release them anytime soon.

I think there should be a UNSC resolution on this if they are not released soon, as this is the second time Iran has broken the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (ref: "innocent passage").

Perhaps the Pasdaran have staged an elaborate sting operation with a small littoral cargo ship (with ´suspicious´used cars on board) as the bait. Obviously HMS Cornwall was several miles off the scene and probably the british patrol boats have indeed strayed (may be the iraqi ship made evading maneuvers?) into iranian waters. After inspecting the iraqi boat they simply got trapped by the already lurking Pasdaran speed boats.

Notably the Iranians are claiming that they have GPS data from the british boats that they were indeed in their waters and several statements of the RN are indicating that an ´unclear demarcation´of the iraq-iran seaborders may be responsible for the incident. Iran may indeed have some evidence to support their position.

The entire operation is an attempt by Tehran to retaliate for US and British arrests/kidnappings of Iranian officials in Iraq. Iran wants to give a signal that this has to stop or US and UK military personnel will face similar consequences. :nono: Unfourtunately the iranians overplay their hand (in my humble opinion) since the potential for escalation is too severe and the incident could develop into some kind of ´hostage crisis´. Tehran should desist from making the same old mistakes from the 80's (hostages in lebanon!) again because this will only hurt their own international standing especially with powers having remained relatively friendly to them so far.

Violet Oboe said:

Perhaps the Pasdaran have staged an elaborate sting operation with a small littoral cargo ship (with ´suspicious´used cars on board) as the bait.

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I don't believe so. When the Lynx returned to the scene after losing contact with the two boats, the crew of the merchentman were gesturing frantically in the direction of the confrontation was taking place. If they had been part of an Iranian operation they wouldn't have directed a heavily-armed helicopter towards the sailors and marines, considering it could have threatened to blow the Iranians out of the water if they had not backed off.

Notably the Iranians are claiming that they have GPS data

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That's irrelevant. The UN Law says that you can't hold people for "innocent passage", which is what this would have counted as. So even if they did cross the "line" (not that there is one agreed upon) they shouldn't have been taken captive.

The entire operation is an attempt by Tehran to retaliate for US and British arrests/kidnappings of Iranian officials in Iraq.

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The Coalition forces have grounds to believe such Iranians are helping make things worse in Iraq, so I think such detentions are justified. On the other hand this naval matter is completely unjustified.