UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


Broccoli

Junior Member
A report by The Times suggests the plans have been drawn up as part of proposals to radically modernise the Armed Forces and cut costs.
It claims the Government will examine the idea, as the cost of upgrading Britain's 227 Challenger 2 tanks, and the supporting 388 Warrior armoured fighting vehicles, has soared.

Last year, then-Defence Secretary Penny Mordaunt said both vehicles were "obsolete".

Lucy Fisher, Defence Editor for The Times and the journalist behind the report, told Forces News the place of the tank in the UK Armed Forces is now "incredibly vulnerable"
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Breadbox

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Brits might be scrapping the tanks under the ever more useful reason of ‘Modernising’ The armed forces. Sometimes it’s just difficult to admit that you have no damn money.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
British armor to be scrapped... much like how the Queen Elizabeth class was to be sold and how the Invincible class was to be sold...

Both Warrior and Challanger II have Programs to improve them. They are far from perfect but can be improved.
New defence landscapes such as cyber and space were detailed by the newspaper as a priority for the military
Cyber and Space are important aspects of modern warfare yet fall into the support arms not direct action. Increasingly in the theatre of operations Tanks and armor are more relevant today than they have been in the past. It’s not a question of No money it’s a question of programming. Getting the management inline and moving forward to do the work.
Rhinmetall has shown a 130mm Gun demonstrator built on the Challenger 2,
Warrior has been in testing with a 40mm gun upgrade.
The Ajax armored reconnaissance vehicles just entered service these are meant to operate with Tanks and armor.
 

Broccoli

Junior Member
Putting money on modernization doesn't matter much as UK has previously cancelled projects it has thrown billions at.
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The Ministry of Defence has also been accused of failing to advise ministers of the full cost and impact of the loss of the planes.

Almost £4bn has been spent on the project and it will cost £200m to scrap the aircraft and pay compensation to the manufacturers, BAE Systems.
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Mr T

Senior Member
Putting money on modernization doesn't matter much as UK has previously cancelled projects it has thrown billions at.
That was almost a decade ago, and it wasn't a modernisation - it was trying to build new aircraft using airframes from old planes that weren't built to a conforming standard (because before Mrs Thatcher British industry had a habit of "making things do" rather than making them well) and therefore proved far more expensive than was planned.

If the Challenger 2 is upgraded it might theoretically be sold at some point, but it sure as hell won't be thrown in the bin for an off-the-shelf purchase. There's little reason for the upgrade to go so badly wrong it needs to be scrapped.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
That was almost a decade ago, and it wasn't a modernisation - it was trying to build new aircraft using airframes from old planes that weren't built to a conforming standard (because before Mrs Thatcher British industry had a habit of "making things do" rather than making them well) and therefore proved far more expensive than was planned.

If the Challenger 2 is upgraded it might theoretically be sold at some point, but it sure as hell won't be thrown in the bin for an off-the-shelf purchase. There's little reason for the upgrade to go so badly wrong it needs to be scrapped.
British armored regime is broken into three major parts
Warrior
Although there has been reported cost overruns and three year delay on the Warrior Capability Sustainment Program. However thus far it seems to be a go. Unlike the Nimrod which was a total rebuild the majority of the WCSP is the turret and armor overhaul. The new turret with the 40mm gun and existing add on armor for a number of them with other warriors then reconfigured as recovery and APCs. Basically removal of the turret and reworking the interior. Unlike Bradley they don’t intend a full replacement until the 2040s.
Ajax
The New Ajax family of vehicles primarily in the form of the Ajax Armored recon vehicle.
Challenger II
CLEP Challanger Life Extension Program aims for a systematic upgrade. The hull of the vehicle is still sound as can be seen by other third gen MBT being updated right now the obsolescence is primarily systems not the whole. Updated Horstman suspension, modernized fire control and Commander’s sights, modernized crew stations, and retrofit with an APS. Rheinmetall additionally is shopping the MOD for a turret overhaul including either the 120mm smoothbore or 130mm smoothbore both of which would potentially extend the life of the CLEP from (Planned) 2035 life end date (2025 today) to longer.
Parallel to the CLEP is the HAAIP or Heavy Armour Automotive Improvement Programme which focuses on the automotive side of the tank and it’s common variants.
For these vehicles the biggest issues have been gun systems associated magazine, followed by engines. Every other issue is common to their equivalents abroad from Abram and Bradley to T90 and BMP3. Those other issues can be fixed in much the same way.
The main guns of the Warrior and Challanger though revolutionary when new in the long run lost ground in the long run, yet this can also be seen in their foreign peers. The scrapping of the British Armored forces would rendered the British army less effective in a great powers competition. The only currently active armored programs for the British being Ajax, (Strike Brigades) Boxer and their Multirole Vehicle program
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Ajax as a replacement for Warrior might be doable, it’s based on the ASCOD2 platform which is an established IFV. However not a MBT And reconfiguring a new dedicated IFV would take more time and money. Boxer and the Strike Brigades are mechanized infantry along the same lines as Stryker BCT. MRV as indicated above are MRAPS and JLTV.
 

Broccoli

Junior Member
UK isn't an superpower anymore so if they need military it's more than likely that they are supporting US forces instead going alone and they van handle Falklands style problems alone without needing tanks.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The UK has obligations of NATO and commitments of its own, including in support of the US but also on its own as you just indicated by the Falklands.
Next the Falklands is a very specific case point as the aim there is to deter by naval and air. The British Army as part of NATO is operating primarily in support or Eastern European security. That means vs Russian tanks.
 

asif iqbal

Brigadier
Tank numbers have been decreasing with all militaries and British army is no different

It is very unlikely that UK will hold ground against another country far from home shores

what 21st warfare is about is power projection, look at Spain LHD, look at Turkey LHD, look at Australia LHD, look at Egypt LHD hell even Algeria is getting one none of these have a history of power projection

thats why UK is investing more in air and naval platforms its all about mobility

moving heavy armour around is very costly and cumbersome, Americans are doing it but thats a exception

a single Attack helicopter can take care of a entire column of tanks

Desert Storm proved that

less tanks more fighting vehicles
 

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