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Mr T

Senior Member
what a joke of a frigate! scandalous, sending the RN to Bangladesh level (and I don't mean to downplay the Type 056 export-version!)
Jura, are you serious or are you just here to troll?

The Arrowhead 140 design was the most flexible potential option of the three solutions offered. The others were a much lighter MEKO baseline or the untested "Leander" from BAE, which was also probably lighter and very risky.

Arrowhead 140 was the option of choice for pretty much everyone with a non-commercial interest in the Type 31. The Iver Huitfeldt is a good ship and larger than the Type 23. Really there's plenty going for it. The only real issue is the modules installed, but even then it can be upgraded in the future.
 
Jura, are you serious or are you just here to troll?

The Arrowhead 140 design was the most flexible potential option of the three solutions offered. The others were a much lighter MEKO baseline or the untested "Leander" from BAE, which was also probably lighter and very risky.

Arrowhead 140 was the option of choice for pretty much everyone with a non-commercial interest in the Type 31. The Iver Huitfeldt is a good ship and larger than the Type 23. Really there's plenty going for it. The only real issue is the modules installed, but even then it can be upgraded in the future.
I offer you, genius, the part of my post Today at 7:37 PM you omitted:

shame on those compliant to such a "solution" mainly the current Admiralty!

plus
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Mr T

Senior Member
I offer you, genius, the part of my post Today at 7:37 PM you omitted:

shame on those compliant to such a "solution" mainly the current Admiralty!
How exactly does that expand on what I quoted? I dare you to explain why Arrowhead wasn't the best of the designs available. Or indeed why it's flawed at all.

Look, I get that you don't like the UK. But this is a serious place for discussion. If you want to make uninformed comments that place on people's prejudices, I'm sure there's a sub-reddit somewhere you can post on.
 

Timmymagic

New Member
Registered Member
How exactly does that expand on what I quoted? I dare you to explain why Arrowhead wasn't the best of the designs available. Or indeed why it's flawed at all.

Look, I get that you don't like the UK. But this is a serious place for discussion. If you want to make uninformed comments that place on people's prejudices, I'm sure there's a sub-reddit somewhere you can post on.
It's nonsensical. T31 is by any stretch a decent Frigate. It's no Type 26, but then again that's in a league of its own. Does that make every other Frigate an OPV or Corvette? Of course not. That would be silly

We don't know the weapons fit yet, but stick a freebie 4.5 inch gun on, Artisan, Sea Ceptor, 2 x DS30M, Wildcat with Stingray, Sea Venom and Martlet and the i-SSGM that the RN are looking to get and its a very capable General Purpose Frigate by any stretch of the imagination.

Stick a containerised CAPTAS-4, some recycled torpedo tubes and CAMM-ER on it down the road and it becomes an excellent Frigate....that will probably not happen, but the potential is there.
 
How exactly does that expand on what I quoted? I dare you to explain why Arrowhead wasn't the best of the designs available. Or indeed why it's flawed at all.

Look, I get that you don't like the UK. But this is a serious place for discussion. If you want to make uninformed comments that place on people's prejudices, I'm sure there's a sub-reddit somewhere you can post on.
May 8, 2015
in fact, Jeff, I'm a big fan of the Royal Navy (I spent a number of days, and several nights :) on reading about its history ... and I'm astonished by the low number of ships it operates now :-(
 
How exactly does that expand on what I quoted? I dare you to explain why Arrowhead wasn't the best of the designs available. Or indeed why it's flawed at all.

Look, I get that you don't like the UK. But this is a serious place for discussion. If you want to make uninformed comments that place on people's prejudices, I'm sure there's a sub-reddit somewhere you can post on.
oh and related to your "I get that you don't like the UK", I went to Greenwich last year to admire this:



now go ahead, praise your "frigate"
 
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Mr T

Senior Member
Jura, if you can't explain why the Type 31 is a bad design, regardless of whether or not you claim to be a fan of the Royal Navy past or present, you are trolling - especially if you're pointing to the Bangladeshi Navy as being comparable to the RN. Because we're talking about the design here. Because the current news is about the design that has been picked.

Also I have no idea what you think a frigate is. The Type 31 is probably going to be a bit larger than the Type 23. Are you going to claim that the Type 23 isn't a real frigate? Or can you actually explain why the Type 31 is not a proper frigate?

If you've had your fun already, don't bother replying. But if you have a point to make, explain it rather than be sarcastic. Because right now no one understands the point you're trying to make. That's your failing, not ours.
 
Jura, if you can't explain why the Type 31 is a bad design, regardless of whether or not you claim to be a fan of the Royal Navy past or present, you are trolling - especially if you're pointing to the Bangladeshi Navy as being comparable to the RN. Because we're talking about the design here. Because the current news is about the design that has been picked.

Also I have no idea what you think a frigate is. The Type 31 is probably going to be a bit larger than the Type 23. Are you going to claim that the Type 23 isn't a real frigate? Or can you actually explain why the Type 31 is not a proper frigate?

If you've had your fun already, don't bother replying. But if you have a point to make, explain it rather than be sarcastic. Because right now no one understands the point you're trying to make. That's your failing, not ours.
OK so you don't know what countries are getting even lighter models like MEKO2000; Daewooo DF- and DW-; Sigma; Gowind,

and you don't know the prices and capabilities of those models,

so you can't see the Type31 is going to be a tin can considering the budget,

but I think you can see the RN goes downhill,

and I add people involved in this should protest, instead there's "a decent frigate" type of argumentation,

cheers
 
fancy article
DSEI: U.K. Crafting New Command and Control Regime as Royal Navy Grows
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The Royal Navy’s metamorphosis from a provider of lone warships to the world’s maritime hotspots into a service deploying carrier strike and amphibious task groups will be accompanied by an equally transformation in command and control (C2), according to the U.K.’s surface fleet commander.

In the most radical shake-up of its kind in a century, Rear Adm. Andy Burns forecast that large embarked headquarters will become a thing of the past.

Instead, C2 will be performed by smaller platforms using virtual networks, hardened against cyber-attack and able to function without satellite data links.

Maintaining a decisive advantage in naval operations will require capabilities “fit for the information age and in anticipation of machine-speed warfare,” he said on Thursday.

“I believe we need to change the C2 culture across the four pillars of people, processes, structures and technology.”

Addressing a naval seminar at the DSEI defense exhibition in London, Burns – who is Commander U.K. Maritime Forces and Rear Admiral Surface Ships – suggested that rank and age would become “increasingly irrelevant” in the future headquarters.

“The traditional role of commodore or admiral as the ultimate decision-maker must give way to an approach that is more to do with enabling and catalyzing,” he said. “This style of command is already beginning to shift our approach.”

In 2016 Burns became the first Royal Navy officer to command a U.S. Navy task force in the Middle East, taking charge of 5th Fleet’s CTF 50.

“I enjoyed considerable freedom to approach the task differently because the 5th Fleet commander recognized that our response to crisis needs to be instinctive rather than controlled, and unconstrained from headquarters ashore,” he said.

“Similarly,
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, we undertook a rigorous assessment of the extent to which we were really exercising mission command. We wanted to ensure that subordinate commanders had the freedom to harness the intellectual capacity of their own staffs and operate with autonomy within broad commander’s intent.

“I’ll be honest: there was room for improvement. But to create and maintain the C2 ecosystem we need for the future, we need to develop a culture of independent innovation and learning through failure.”

Burns said the Royal Navy will require commanders with softer skills, such as the ability to collaborate, and quoted former U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis: “In this age, I don’t care how operationally or tactically brilliant you are. If you cannot create harmony, even vicious harmony, on the battlefield, based on trust, across service lines, across coalition and national lines, and across civilian and military lines, you need to go home. Because your leadership is obsolete. We’ve got to have officers who can create harmony across all those lines.”

Turning to the processes pillar, Burns said those officers must try to deliver outcomes rather than a linear plan. “During Exercise Joint Venture earlier this year we confirmed how counterproductive it is to focus on the phases of an off-the-shelf plan”, he told the DSEI audience.

“Our operational design in the future will apply methodology that makes sense of the complex environment but allows constant review, with adaptive tools and techniques to make the most of emerging technology.”

As far as the command structures are concerned, Burns predicted that fixed headquarters would be replaced by virtual networks.

“The need for large headquarters to be embarked in a command platform at sea is diminishing. Lighter technology will enable a fly forward capability, making a wider range of shipping suitable for supporting C2,” he said.

The new structures must be cyber resilient, he explained, and able to operate in a C2-degraded or -denied environment (C2D2E) without access to space-based services.

Commanders would have to learn to rapidly exploit automated decision-support technologies, such as data-to-decision systems, human-machine interfaces, cloud solutions and artificial intelligence.

The U.K.’s emerging Future Force operating concept – which covers the sea, land, air, space and cyber domains to 2035 – describes how C2 will undergo “the most fundamental program of reform for over 100 years,” Burns said.

“The potential for providing secure cloud-based data, connectivity and AI support will lead to a reduction in the size of our deployed headquarters and drive a revision of the methods that currently underpin mission command.”

The RN was responding swiftly to the new requirements, he said. Its recently established MarWorks information warfare technology accelerator “has already delivered some spectacular results” including C2D2E-resilient networks and low size, weight and power services.

He also noted the development of fifth-generation cloud-based technologies and said tethered unmanned air systems and Helikite aerostats could be employed for reach-back C2.

“The Royal Navy is responding to the changing character of maritime conflict and adapting its approach to C2. Only by doing so, at an ever-increasing pace, will we retain the ability to fight and win.”
someone please page when the RN, which "grows" according to that article, commissions a warship bigger than OPVs and other than the PoW
 

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