Type 09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread


Higgle

Junior Member
Registered Member
HI Sutton, the submarine expert who works for Naval News (not sure if he is still a staff member), believed these images to be the pre-assembled parts of the new Type 95 Sui class SSN. The article below is dated from February.
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This is the analysis Sutton offered to support this conclusion:

"The hull section is approximately 30-32 meters long and roughly 11-12 meters across. This points to the new Type-095 and Type-096 boats. The other possibility is an improved version of the current Type-093 Shang-class. This would logically be the Type-093B cruise-missile optimized version. This is expected to feature vertical launch tubes similar to the Russian Yasen class. These will allow it to carry more YJ-18 cruise missiles.

However the approximate measurements are making the completely new classes a safer bet at this stage.

These new classes will be more advanced than the Type-093, with increased levels of stealth. The Type-095 in particular may become very relevant if the PLAN increases its prescience in the Indian Ocean."

Thought this might be interesting to some.

If the module is 11-12 meters across, then it isn't indicative of a 095 under construction. In fact, much the opposite. One of the rumors we heard was that the 095 will be partially single-hulled, and 11-12m on the stern doesn't fit the bill assuming that rumor is true. Pretty much everything is still up in the air regarding submarines so it's best to just sit and wait before jumping to conclusions. Even Sutton has been a bit too lenient with his research as of late, all the more reason to take his articles with a pinch of salt.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
In an effort to come up with news he sometimes writes articles based on the flimsiest of evidence and makes wild extrapolations I agree.
It has become worse since he became a regular contributor to those news sites.
Still better than a lot of other journalists like David Axe or Minnie Chan I suppose.
 

5unrise

New Member
Registered Member
I've seen some articles from David Axe and I got to say they were not very analytical. However, got to keep in mind he is probably writing for the general public, so got to oversimplify and generalize a bit. Probably the same can be said about Minnie Chan. I read some of her articles on SCMP, and she basically says the same thing as mainstream western media, sometimes line by line.
 

BoraTas

Junior Member
Registered Member
Don't read too much into the hull design, the key is the power plant.

View attachment 79065
Do I see a single natural circulation reactor, single steam turbine and shaftless (IEP) design there? If so, WOW.
But I have the opposite thoughts about the rest. Fairwater planes, cruciform control surfaces and no pumpjet. Most importantly, just 12 silos. I hope this is just for the powerplant.
 

lcloo

Senior Member
Do I see a single natural circulation reactor, single steam turbine and shaftless (IEP) design there? If so, WOW.
But I have the opposite thoughts about the rest. Fairwater planes, cruciform control surfaces and no pumpjet. Most importantly, just 12 silos. I hope this is just for the powerplant.
It is from NPIC, therefore it has nothing to do with design of the submarine itself.

NPIC = Nuclear Power Institute of China. NPIC, a subsidiary of China National Nuclear Corporation (CNNC), is the only large-scale comprehensive R&D base in China incorporating reactor engineering research, design, testing, operations and small batch production.
 

Andy1974

Junior Member
Registered Member
Do I see a single natural circulation reactor, single steam turbine and shaftless (IEP) design there? If so, WOW.
But I have the opposite thoughts about the rest. Fairwater planes, cruciform control surfaces and no pumpjet. Most importantly, just 12 silos. I hope this is just for the powerplant.
Could you elaborate more on these technologies please?
 

ZeEa5KPul

Senior Member
Registered Member
Could you elaborate more on these technologies please?
Nuclear reactors work by cycling a coolant between the core where fission occurs (and heat is generated) and a heat exchanger. There's also a secondary loop from the heat exchanger to the turbine which is turned by the high pressure steam. Usually, pumps are used to move the coolant - but pumps are noisy and a submarine lives and dies by the mantra "silence is golden." It's possible in certain regimes (i.e. low power requirements when the submarine is stationary or moving slowly) when the coolant moves slowly to do away with pumping and have the fluid move by convection. That's called natural circulation.

Single steam turbine is pretty self-explanatory.

Shaftless drives use a magnetic field rather than a shaft to turn the submarine's propeller. Shafts have gears and metal parts scraping on other parts, which means noise. I should note that no submarine is known to use this technology (all public examples of it are far too low-powered to propel a submarine). You're also kind of trading one problem for another - although shaftless propellers are quiet, they use powerful magnets and there are such things as magnetic anomaly detectors.

Fairwater planes are just a terminology for planes on the sail (the part that sticks out from the body) of the submarine.

Cruciform control surfaces: The planes and tail of the submarine are at right angles. Some submarines adopt X-shaped control surfaces. That's less hydrodynamically efficient but supposedly has better control in shallow waters.

Pumpjet: A shroud around the propeller of the submarine. Quieter than an exposed propeller but less efficient.

This model is probably someone's idea of a submarine and isn't reflective of any Chinese (or any other nation's) submarine. The powerplant may be illustrative (it's known that some Type 09-III use natural circulation).
 

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