Type 022 Missile Boat

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

And of those set points, yeas those are possiple, but would require extensive eletronical qizmoes abroad the firing platform and there we are again in the ultimate limit of small, fast boats.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily big gizmos. If it has some rough targeting equipment it's not likely to be a radar active one. One can see the attention to low observability---serrated window edges; concealed exhaust openings to deter IR detection; a distinct paint pattern designed against contrast or pixel matching algorhythms used on EO weapons; radarless CIWS guided entirely by IRST/OLS device. Except for the navigation radar that is intended to be used during peacetime and the ubiquitious communications, the craft is not designed to reflect or emit.

The most likely onboard targeting device, if I may be speculative, that is without using datalinked target data from offboard sensors or other platforms, would be a rangefinding radar reciever. Such devices actually don't weigh very much, nor needs to be big, and is basically a RWR that can obtain approximate range. Similar devices are used by aircraft to target radar sites for example. RWRs can obtain bearing. If you are able to get Bearing A, and the ship travels a fixed distance, then get Bearing B, you can intersect the lines,and you get your aimpoint for your AshM. Of course the catch being the opposing target would be in low or zero emission condition.

I had mentioned before, with regards to speculation about the missiles on the 022, that it maybe what amounts to a sea launched KD-88. The KD-88 amounts to an EO guided version of the YJ-83 and is currently used on the JH-7A with the H-6M/H/K a distinct possibility. It can explain why the missiles are not on the ships yet, and they may still be being tested. A radar guided missile like the YJ-83 can face clutter issues along the coast line, hence why coastal AshMs like the C701 and NSF rely on EO to IR means other than radar guidance (hence why Mavericks are better for coastal defense rather than Harpoons---if you like to explain why Taiwan ordered more Mavericks rather than Harpoons).

The missile would fly to the aimpoint, and from there may try to visually contact the target, and the images sent back via datalink to the ship, which in turn would designate the targets from the images, and the missile would then use shape/pattern/contrast matching to guide to the target.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

The PLAN seems retarded considering what their ancestors have long done. From Stephen Turnbull's book.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Anyone have any idea of what the range of those datalinks on 022s may be? Also, are there any international rules or regulations on what kind of buoys a country can put in their own waters? Is it that far fetched to have a network of buoys act as the sensor gizmos that so many say a FAC is limited due to it's small size?

Re: Missiles for 2208 catamaran FAC

Is this perhaps an 022 caught in motion by Google Earth?

38.46.19.41 N , 121.36.19.37 E

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

well there are sonyboys that track submarines in both finnish and swedish navy so I dont see any reason why not (in legal term)....but then again, if you plan to build a network of boys to help FAC operation, its a pretty bloody huge area where you are intending to build it. And taking account of Chinese huge coastline, I think it would be impposible task by any meaningfull budget. Despite, such system would even futher restrict the FAC operations to the are where the net work would function, cribbling the last remainings of the operational flexibility...

I say go on for corvette, that can be fast (over 40 kts), could carry its own datalinks, as well as own helicopter (or helicopter-drones like the new german K130) for targeting and good CIWS system as well...

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Gollevainen said:

well there are sonyboys that track submarines in both finnish and swedish navy so I dont see any reason why not (in legal term)....but then again, if you plan to build a network of boys to help FAC operation, its a pretty bloody huge area where you are intending to build it. And taking account of Chinese huge coastline, I think it would be impposible task by any meaningfull budget. Despite, such system would even futher restrict the FAC operations to the are where the net work would function, cribbling the last remainings of the operational flexibility...

I say go on for corvette, that can be fast (over 40 kts), could carry its own datalinks, as well as own helicopter (or helicopter-drones like the new german K130) for targeting and good CIWS system as well...

Click to expand...

Only need to build a sonar buoy network around the Taiwan area if you want to employ 022s in a military situation aside from the blue water navy assets.

I think we're looking at the glass from two angles, you see it half empty, I see it half full. I see a sonar buoy network as giving the 022 more flexibility in its capacity as opposed to limiting it. 022s can still operate out of the network areas, you just simply lose the sensor coverage and fall back to old school tactics or get sensor coverage from somewhere else such as a bigger ship. A buoy system can have dual civilian/military applications so I see it easier to justify costs than another military platform (corvettes) assuming if PLAN had to fight for budget allocation.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Buoys for datalinks are a great idea, truly. They could be 'sown' in much the same way as mines and recovered/disabled as needed. No need for a perminant network either, just sow a few as and where needed.

And think how many weapons the enemy might expend at anything buoylike, lol. Getting the enemy to waste resources hunting shadows is very Sun Tzu :coffee:


Anyway, China has some satallites for datalinks anyway, partically in the APAC region. These would have limited bandwidth but make OTH-datalinking plausble for PLAN Type-022s with or without buoys, shore based or aircraft datalink relays.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

well thinking glass half full is dangerous in military solutions. It simply makes your overexgerate your own capacities and settle for compromises

The sonyboys would be good, if there would be good reason why PLANs coastal defence combatants cannot grow in size and needs to be restricted to the small size, But I see no reason for that. Lot more flexible and multipurpose solution would still be building a Corvette like LCS (with ASuW as main trick), pr.20380 or German K130

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Gollevainen said:

well thinking glass half full is dangerous in military solutions. It simply makes your overexgerate your own capacities and settle for compromises

The sonyboys would be good, if there would be good reason why PLANs coastal defence combatants cannot grow in size and needs to be restricted to the small size, But I see no reason for that. Lot more flexible and multipurpose solution would still be building a Corvette like LCS (with ASuW as main trick), pr.20380 or German K130

Click to expand...

Glass half full thinking is only dangerous if one views it through rose colored lenses. I never said if 022s were able to utilize sonar buoys, then PLAN doesn't need any other blue water naval assets nor did I ever say with this strategy, no other plans are needed. Glass half full thinking advances naval doctrine. Of all the naval warfare advances made, many resulted from a lot of glass half full experimentations. :coffee:

Considering that PLAN seems intent on churning out 022s on a large scale (9 confirmed by pics at this point?), it seems PLAN will retain a small combatant brown water navy in the foreseeable future while building out the blue water counterpart. A sonar buoy network is also beneficial to any other naval combatants so long as they can link up. I already mentioned a buoy can provide dual civilian/military applications so it would seem just as multipurposed and much, much cheaper than building out a modern, stealthy corvette which PLAN also probably lacks experience.

Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Could the 022 simply be a design to pack more surface firepower? If you believe that each can carry four missiles, then two would carry the same number of AshMs as a 052C. Maybe the Chinese realized that a successful saturated missile attack can only be achieved by simultaneous attacks from the sea and the air.