Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

sequ said:

"let perfect not be an enemy of good enough" has some merit here. BTW the issue of building 1500hp diesel engine suitable for MBT's is IMO more because of unwillingness to invest $$ than that of tech. Or do you really think that the Brits, French and Italians are incapable of building a similar powerpack with the same reliability as the Germans?

Click to expand...

No, but as you mentioned: Someone has to do it! But can Turkey do it alone for a MBT engine, the same for several helicopter engines, turbofan engines and so on!

IMO you have too many projects running at the same time with too similar schedules and even if you don't like to hear it, not much experience so that this lack of can be overcome only by a few $$$ within a few years.

Therefore again, talk is cheap ... and until I do not see an operational Turkish MBT, trainer, fighter, ship, helicopter and so on running on its own power, reliable for years, I won't hold my breath.

Turkey has massively expanded its domestic military programs and with some foreign help they have made some impressive qualitatively improvements in their R&D capabilities.

However I would urge caution as developing an engine is probably the most difficult thing than the rest of the fighter/heli/tanks etc components.

On the other hand, the Turkish officials seem pretty confident in their timelines so maybe they know something more than the rest of us. Very ambitious, high risk-high reward programs

I am eagerly awaiting to see how the Turkish military industry develops in the future, there is a clear demand for its products in the Muslim world

@sequ I appreciate and I applaud the work you are doing here, tirelessly finding and posting up-to-date Turkish military advancements. I personally dont post too much in this thread as i am not very knowledgable about Turkish affairs, but I also jump in occasionally to stay informed about its military advancements

Keep up the good work

Deino said:

No, but as you mentioned: Someone has to do it! But can Turkey do it alone for a MBT engine, the same for several helicopter engines, turbofan engines and so on!

Click to expand...

Yes I am sure Turkey can do it in the giving time frames. I trust the timelines given by PhD's in their respective fields of science and engineering over an internet mod all day.

Deino said:

IMO you have too many projects running at the same time with too similar schedules and even if you don't like to hear it, not much experience so that this lack of can be overcome only by a few $$$ within a few years.

Click to expand...

No, Turkey has enough experience like I've so many times proven. It is just that you don't want to believe. And with every project, Turkish scientists, engineers and technicians learn a lot of valuable experience which they then immediately put to use in more complex projects. They don't stand idle for one moment.
Turkey is not merely developing different kinds of systems, it is creating an entire ecosystem with cross-pollination between the various branches of tech and industry. The basic principles of various technologies are well known to the Tuks, and besides the present industrial base and political will, it is a matter of financing of which the Turks are willing to invest billions of $$ of. This funding is not a standard thing even in industrialized countries for whatever reason.

Deino said:

Therefore again, talk is cheap ... and until I do not see an operational Turkish MBT, trainer, fighter, ship, helicopter and so on running on its own power, reliable for years, I won't hold my breath.

Click to expand...

Talk is cheap but multi billion $$ investments are not..

voyager1 said:

Turkey has massively expanded its domestic military programs and with some foreign help they have made some impressive qualitatively improvements in their R&D capabilities.

However I would urge caution as developing an engine is probably the most difficult thing than the rest of the fighter/heli/tanks etc components.

On the other hand, the Turkish officials seem pretty confident in their timelines so maybe they know something more than the rest of us. Very ambitious, high risk-high reward programs

I am eagerly awaiting to see how the Turkish military industry develops in the future, there is a clear demand for its products in the Muslim world

@sequ I appreciate and I applaud the work you are doing here, tirelessly finding and posting up-to-date Turkish military advancements. I personally dont post too much in this thread as i am not very knowledgable about Turkish affairs, but I also jump in occasionally to stay informed about its military advancements

Keep up the good work

Click to expand...

Thank you for the kind words!

I totally understand your reservation about the enige issue. Engines, whether they be piston of turbine based are the most difficult parts of a weapons system. But hearing and seeing the confidence of the Turkish scientists talking about the feasibility of these projects I cannot deny their claims, especially as I don't have an engineering background. It is a source of great optimism for me and thus I am confident that they will deliver to their promises. These scientists when they graduated in the '80s had difficulty in finding jobs in Turkey and now they have difficulty in finding enough graduates to work on their projects!

What we are seeing here is historical. The Turkish military-industrial from progress from 2010-2030 reminds me the of the Chinese one from 2000-2020. I clearly see the parallels between these two countries and I'm sure other forum members are seeing the same thing.

There is still a lot to be posted by me, like roadmaps by Aselsan for the development of various radars and missiles. The recent registering of the name TF-6000 by TEI is another sign that things go the right way for Turkey. It is not a matter of 'if' but 'when'.

I have to agree with Deino here. It can take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to develop a gas turbine engine and if you have multiple projects simultaneously you need multiple teams too. Then there is all the infrastructure you need for aeronautics. Supercomputers to refine the design, wind tunnels to test the airframe characteristics, for engines you need test stands. You need metallurgists who can work on the required alloys, because quite often they aren't available on the open market with the required characteristics. We'll have to see in a decade how many of those projects went through.

The Japanese have been working on the XF9 engine for their fighter program for almost a decade, and that was after they spent another decade just practicing how to make an engine with the XF5 engine program. This is not just about money.

gelgoog said:

It can take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to develop a gas turbine engine

Click to expand...

True.

gelgoog said:

and if you have multiple projects simultaneously you need multiple teams too.

Click to expand...

True. But does this mean that TEI isn't capable of having multiple teams working on multiple projects? Because it can. It worked and is working on the TS1400, TJ300/400, PG-30/40/50, PD-155/170/180-220DT/ST and possibly more projects that are still secret or have somehow leaked such as the TF-6000.

gelgoog said:

Then there is all the infrastructure you need for aeronautics. Supercomputers to refine the design,

Click to expand...

I'm sure Turkey has supercomputers capable of doing just that.

gelgoog said:

wind tunnels to test the airframe characteristics

Click to expand...

Of which Turkey has in universities and research institutes and outsources to other countries like it did in the past like Indonesia, Malaysia and now the UK. TAI is also in the process of building wind tunnel for itself ready in 2023.

gelgoog said:

for engines you need test stands

Click to expand...

gelgoog said:

You need metallurgists who can work on the required alloys

Click to expand...

Say hello to TUBITAK MAM and Gurmetal for the casting:

TEI Acquires 51% Shares of Gür Metal​

TEI - TUSAŞ Motor Sanayii A.Ş. has signed a strategic partnership aimed to reduce Turkey’s foreign dependency and acquired a 51% share in the company Gür Metal Hassas Döküm San. ve Tic. A.Ş. (Gür Metal).
TEI and Gür Metal were working together on the Project to Develop the Titanium Precision Casting Process Used in Metal Aviation (İNCİ) and the Project on the Development of Nickel Super-alloy Materials and Production Processes Used in Aviation (KRİSTAL), supported by the Presidency of Defense Industries
Gür Metal is the domestic supplier for the casting of titanium parts that can be used in the TS1400 Turboshaft Engine and other national engine projects carried out by TEI and, at the same time, it is the only supplier in Turkey together with TÜBİTAK-MAM for the casting of turbine blades of such engine projects with monocrystalline and directional solidification, as well as for the polycrystalline casting by using the nickel-based super-alloys of large-scale turbine parts. With the acquisition of 51% of shares in Gür Metal, which has vacuum precision casting technology for the production of critical engine parts, TEI has taken advantage of domestically producing and supplying the precision cast engine parts that it needs.

gelgoog said:

because quite often they aren't available on the open market with the required characteristics

Click to expand...

True, that's why the TS1400 is up to 30kg heavier compared to its foreign counterparts because it doesn't use the latest generation of materials that come from one source, rather it uses materials that are available from various sources so as not to fall prey to embargoes and sanctions:

gelgoog said:

The Japanese have been working on the XF9 engine for their fighter program for almost a decade, and that was after they spent another decade just practicing how to make an engine with the XF5 engine program. This is not just about money.

Click to expand...

I can't speak for the Japanese. I don't know why they struggle with these engines. Perhaps it has to do with them having less need for these engines because they can always rely on Western support for their military needs. This curbs the ambition and enthusiasm a lot IMO.

gelgoog said:

I have to agree with Deino here.

Click to expand...

Well, I hope that at least you are starting to change your mind after this.

Sahin 40mm fragmentation anti-UAV system developed by Aselsan



Drone attacks on critical areas at home and abroad have increased a lot.

ŞAHİN, which uses a 40 mm smart grenade launcher integrated with the Micro Mini UAV Air Defense System (İHTAR), has developed a physical destruction system, and its contract has been signed.

(Source: ASELSAN 2020 Annual Report)

sequ said:

Sahin 40mm fragmentation anti-UAV system developed by Aselsan

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392043613715144705

Drone attacks on critical areas at home and abroad have increased a lot.

ŞAHİN, which uses a 40 mm smart grenade launcher integrated with the Micro Mini UAV Air Defense System (İHTAR), has developed a physical destruction system, and its contract has been signed.

(Source: ASELSAN 2020 Annual Report)

Click to expand...

This is used in conjunction with the anti-drone laser and drone hammers developed by ASELAN?

siegecrossbow said:

This is used in conjunction with the anti-drone laser and drone hammers developed by ASELAN?

Click to expand...

Perhaps. I don't know about the doctrine of their usage.

sequ said:

Sahin 40mm fragmentation anti-UAV system developed by Aselsan

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392043613715144705

Drone attacks on critical areas at home and abroad have increased a lot.

ŞAHİN, which uses a 40 mm smart grenade launcher integrated with the Micro Mini UAV Air Defense System (İHTAR), has developed a physical destruction system, and its contract has been signed.

(Source: ASELSAN Annual Report)

Click to expand...

Can you share a copy of the 2020 ASELSAN Annual Report but it's not there on the aselsan website and i can't seem to find it anywhere else. Can you share a link please