Trump 2.0 official thread

Lethe

Captain
Kind of glad to see Professor Walt receive more exposure. For a while, it seemed as if he and John Mearsheimer were getting somewhat blackballed after publishing
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.

Oh I have a lot of time for Walt and Mearsheimer. Walt is the main reason I check in on Foreign Policy, though of course there are occasionally other good pieces too.

John Mearsheimer and Hugh White had
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some years back. I have a lot of time for Hugh White too, but I remain unconvinced by one of the core aspects of his thesis (at least as I understand it): White believes that the USA will ultimately yield China a sphere of influence in the Pacific because there's little reason for them not to do so, because America's fundamental security interests are not threatened by the rise of China as they were by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, because there is little prospect that China could go on to dominate Eurasia as the Soviet Union once threatened to do, because even a very powerful China will still be constrained by the presence of a series of credible second- and third-tier powers, chief amongst them Russia, India, and Japan, that are or will be considerably more powerful, relative to China, than anything the Soviets faced on the continent in the years after the Second World War. Conversely, White sees great danger (that is to say, the risk of nuclear war) in the United States continuing to hold increasingly unenforceable positions in relation to especially Taiwan.

White's contention emerges fairly straightforwardly from the realist narrative of both the British and American positions on those major conflagrations of the twentieth century, i.e. the need to prevent the emergence of a Eurasian hegemon. The question is to what extent that perspective can actually be applied to the behaviour of the United States in the 21st century. My view is that it is precisely when accounting for the internal characteristics of the United States, the collection of ideas that Americans have about themselves, their nation and its history, the ideas that I like to group under the banner of "American mythology", that the risk of catastrophic conflict emerges most clearly. Of course China has its own national mythology that shapes its behaviour in relevant ways also, but I think that American mythology, as it has calcified over the course of the 20th century and reached its apotheosis in the unipolar moment in the wake of the Cold War, is uniquely dangerous in its expansive and uncompromising hubris. My fear is that Washington may steer towards conflict even where a sober analysis of the balance of power and interests and likely consequences of certain courses of action suggest it should not, precisely because other factors also have their hands on the wheel: domestic politics, national pride and honour, the pressure to act in ways that satisfy one's image of oneself. White is
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, but I'm not sure how they contribute to his analysis of the U.S.A-China dynamic. I suspect that White's argument may be constrained somewhat by his status as a former insider who still addresses himself to that audience.

In the years since their debate, Mearsheimer's more muscular assertion of America's intent to preserve its primacy appears to correlate more closely to reality. I particularly recall Mearsheimer's comments about the role of American enterprise in the contest, i.e. that the attachment of American corporations to China would be broken and that the sector would swing in support of an unbounded contest with China. That has more or less panned out and seems likely to continue to do so going forward. Conversely,
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from the Trump administration do suggest at least the seeds of a more accommodationist perspective on China that recognises both the reality of China's power and the limits of American power and that would, if carried to meaningful fruition, more resemble White's prescription for the relationship going forward. That Taiwan is entirely absent from the new National Defense Strategy is surely a meaningful omission.

This document does engage with the idea of preventing the rise of a hegemonic power that could threaten American interests, albeit in a manner that seems broadly in alignment with the expansively conceived status quo:

As the NSS recognizes, the Indo-Pacific will soon make up more than half of the global economy. The American people’s security, freedom, and prosperity are therefore directly linked to our ability to trade and engage from a position of strength in the Indo-Pacific. Were China—or anyone else, for that matter—to dominate this broad and crucial region, it would be able to effectively veto Americans’ access to the world’s economic center of gravity.

The first problem here is that a considerable portion of the trade flows referred to are to and from China. It approaches that
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about Australia seeking to defend its trade with China, from China. But let us set that issue aside and assume that the authors merely take an expansive view of the economic potential of other nations in the "Indo-Pacific" region. That recent construct seems of dubious utility. It makes more sense for nations that straddle the two oceans, such as Australia and Indonesia, but I don't see the utility for the United States except as a means of conceptually drawing India into the picture against China, e.g. in the form of the Quad. But that's just the point: it's relatively easy to imagine future Chinese dominance of the Western Pacific. It's a lot harder to imagine future Chinese dominance of the Indian Ocean region, let alone the Persian Gulf and the Middle East, in part because the Western Pacific itself will undoubtedly continue to demand a considerable portion of Chinese energies, and because both India and the United States are well positioned to contest that more distant arena. Bearing in mind also that the majority of US trade with India and the Persian Gulf states goes via the Mediterranean and the Atlantic, not the Pacific. For those enamoured of the Indo-Pacific construct, why not go a step or two further to embrace an Afro-Eurasian-Pacific construct? Surely a region encompassing (handwaves) ~80% of the future global economy is by definition a vital American interest. Add that to Washington's enduring interest in the western hemisphere, and we can see that, indeed, there is nowhere that is not a vital American interest.

Huh. Turns out there is a 10,000 character limit on posts. Splitting accordingly.
 
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Lethe

Captain
(continued from above)

However, assuming I'm reading you correctly, I'm skeptical an effective independent European security architecture will emerge should Washington exit NATO.

1. It's easy for Eurocrats to talk about further European integration — including militarily — but not sure
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be
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secure
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.

2. Until 1945, European kingdoms, principalities and so forth were frequently — if not constantly — at war with one another. The peace that has been achieved these last 81 years or so may very well represent an exception, rather than a sustainable new norm for the continent.

3. While some European capitals like London and Warsaw are unlikely to make nice with Moscow in our lifetimes, rapprochement between other European capitals — like Berlin and even Paris — and Moscow is plausible, especially if more anti-establishment populist leaders are voted into office on the continent. If nothing else, the Germans need access to cheap Russian hydrocarbons, unless they wish to accept further de-industrialization or allow themselves to meaningfully pursue nuclear power.

As more American elites — especially members of Congress — come to recognize that their moment of unipolarity is over, it's going to make increasing sense for US policymakers to stop letting the interests of fundamentally irrelevant actors like Estonia and Lithuania, and increasingly unimportant states like Britain shape American security priorities (even if that seemed unimaginable in the past).

Not to say this is particularly achievable — with someone as crude and sloppy as Trump at the helm — but a significantly leaner and perhaps rebranded NATO represents another possibility.

To be fair, Trump's abrasive — if not unhinged and vibes based — public statements combined with Rutte's embarrassing desperation may ultimately translate to unpredictable, if not volatile outcomes.

Hard to say just what'll happen in the next three years, but no "alliance" is forever, not even NATO.

The emergence of an effective European security architecture seems an unlikely prospect. But today it is at least a thinkable prospect, in a way that was not the case even eighteen months ago. Russia's invasion of Ukraine was clearly insufficient to jolt the Europeans from their complacency, but Trump has at least achieved that. In my view, the USA walking out on NATO and divesting itself of all security commitments in Europe would make the emergence of an effective European-only security architecture a somewhat more thinkable prospect, but the odds would still be against it and it would, in any case, be a rocky, uncertain and extended journey to any meaningful destination.

The problem for a NATO devoid of the United States is that it is immediately and obviously non-credible in its declared function. Nobody really thinks that France is going to war on behalf of Türkiye. The Baltic states would also understandably be very nervous about just how dedicated Western European nations really are to their security in the face of hypothetical Russian advances. Irrespective of what the documents say, the reality is that NATO's Article 5 commitments are underpinned by the assumption that the Americans will be leading from the front. I think that's the seed of truth in Rutte's catastrophising. But just because NATO doesn't really work without the United States doesn't mean that it can't be useful. If the Americans just up and leave, all those institutional links within Europe, the product of decades of integration and habit, remain in place and can serve as the foundation for the development of an order that is credible. Conversely, inventing a new structure from scratch, in parallel with a still functioning NATO, would perhaps be easier in terms of addressing the problem of scope and unrealistic commitments that the major nations aren't actually prepared to stand behind, but it would be significantly more challenging in institutional and operational terms.

It seems the bet that the Washington is making is that there is considerable scope to push European nations (and other allies: the complete absence of Japan and Australia from the 2026 NDS is almost as intriguing as the absence of Taiwan) to increase their capabilities without experiencing negative side-effects from doing so. In part, that judgement may be informed by the idea that even a more militarised and coordinated Europe is fundamentally less relevant and less potentially challenging to American interests than it might've been in the past. Germany is clearly the major swing state. The UK has always been more distant from European structures and more closely aligned with the United States and that seems likely to persist even if there are incremental movements in one direction or another. Conversely, France has always been a pain in the ass from Washington's perspective. Germany is the largest state with the greatest capacity for change. In one narrow sense, the idea that Washington can push Europe to re-arm without experiencing negative side-effects is almost certainly incorrect. European military-industrial economies of scale will remain very challenging. That doesn't mean that Europe can't build most of the hardware it needs, but it does imply that, in doing so, there would be little scope to also entertain American solutions, just as France or Russia currently have limited scope to entertain non-domestic platforms. Not only would European rearmament depress sales of American military-industrial products into Europe over time, but those additional European products would also compete for global export markets.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
JD Vance apparently got booed so much at the Milan Olympics opening ceremony even after there was an announcement to the audience to respect the US delegation. They didn’t seem to show it on US coverage. I saw when the US athletes arrived and it was reported that the screens in the stadium went to JD Vance watching and booing happened there but I didn’t hear intense booing but then NBC could’ve manipulated it.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I've been searching for video/audio of JD Vance getting booed at the Olympics. Then I find out the IOC prevents anyone covering the Olympics from releasing unauthorize footage. It seems the only way anyone outside the audience will get to see/hear this video is if someone in the audience posts it social media. You see the athletes recording with their phones but I bet they will get punished if they show it on social media.
 
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