Trade War with China

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Jono

Jono

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a lot of truth in what you have written, but this is not a just or fair world we are living in.
the western powers have occupied the top spot for the last 500 years, and they have developed their sense of supremacy, and used their moral high ground to dictate their terms to the rest of the not-so-developed inhabitants of the Planet. Might is right, people say.
Unfortunately there is not much you can do to change their prejudice, bias and haughtiness. It is far more rewarding to devote your energy and efforts to develop your own self, than to cry the whole day against the injustice. There is much truth in President Xi's remark that " you have to be hard enough first before you can beat the iron ".
America is sowing 3 Ds everywhere: Discord, Division, Destruction.
China should instead sow these 3 Ds: Dignity, Dialogue, Development.
In the long run, the whole world will come to see who is the positive force, and who is the opposite.
 
H

hkbc

Junior Member
Jono said:
We also need to know that our country is a big elephant, and surrounding countries naturally harbour a fear towards us. Therefore it is important for OBOR to be transparent and really beneficial to the involved countries, to attract love, and to dispel fear and suspicions.
When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.
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I am sorry this is laughable, the amount of b*llsh*t that written about "western" transparency beggars belief, post World War 2 there's been at least 24 covert CIA attempts at regime change around the globe. There's the Dollar diplomacy exercised by the US in Latin America and the East Asia and Iran Contra is probably the poster child of dodgy dealings!

The mythical debt trap (how many countries that have taken the Chinese "death" loans have died or even got sick) isn't even in the same category as the crap that's been done in the name of 'freedom', 'rules based world order' and mom's apple pie! We don't seem to see the news pages filled with debt trap loans by EU and IMF to Greece stories, now do we? Transparency is like beauty only exists in the eye of the beholder!
 
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gelgoog

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AssassinsMace said:
"Authoritarian" is relative. Authoritarian is demanding a nation not to develop technology because they don't trust you as a race. That's why they want to stop Made in China 2025. They get to develop technology without restriction but somehow they think it's their right to restrict the Chinese. Which is worse Chinese authoritarianism that's restricted to China or white supremacist authoritarianism that they want the world to accept. They don't see their authoritarianism. It's like judging Hitler only on how he treated his fellow Nazis and not by how he treats others. I'm sure he was very nice to and protected the rights of his fellow Nazis. Judge them by how they say people are innocent until proven guilty not by the reality that you're guilty to them until you prove yourself innocent. They fear China will abuse technology that doesn't even exist yet so they want to stop it from ever happening. You're guilty first. But that's even a cover to scare people because ultimately it's about white people who must be in authority. Even you're most ardent liberal would rather have the white Western world in authority because then how can they dictate to the world what's more important like when athlete Bruce Jenner transformed into a woman, all of the sudden there were calls in the US that China must deal with transgender rights immediately. Pay attention to blanket unspecified racism by Chinese to Africans while ignoring how unarmed black men get shot and killed by police in the US. Americans are fed up with identity politics yet racism is identity politics. What I just wrote is going to raise some eyebrows because they try to frame US fears over China as something legitimate when it's all just racism as usual. They don't like political correctness? Well just like identity politics, they've been doing it long before and they don't want people to see what's really motivating this fear of China that is just plain old racism as usual. Let's not call it what is really is. Yeah they can point to a race they say they love to counter but I guarantee it's someone who they conquered and forced their culture onto them. In other words they're not a threat to their control.
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No you are quite wrong here. It is not a racial issue. This is just corporate America at work. Or should I say the global corporations at work. Since the notion of corporate America seems to be out of date these days. They could care less about which country they made their wealth originally. They are pissed because they cannot control the Chinese economy to the degree they control other economies because of Chinese limitations on foreign ownership of companies in key sectors. This is about the economic lobbies in Washington DC pure and simple.

The Huawei issue is quite different though since it affects the security apparatus of the Five-Eyes countries i.e. the major Anglo-Saxon powers. It reduces their chances to spy or target other people. Same reason why their agents targeted Kapersky Labs a couple years ago. They had been making moves against them for a long time, but I think what finally made them pissed off, unlike what you hear in the news, is that they helped Iran fight Stuxnet. In Huwaei's case they are probably scared that Iran might actually get advanced communication systems that they cannot hack.
 
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
now I read
11:56, 27-Jan-2019
Canada's ambassador to China resigns after Huawei remarks
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Canada's ambassador to China John McCallum has resigned at the request of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, abruptly ending his diplomatic career.

“Last night I asked for and accepted John McCallum's resignation as Canada's ambassador to China," Trudeau said in a statement issued Saturday.

The resignation comes a week after comments made by McCallum on the extradition of Huawei's chief financial officer Meng Wanzhou at a Chinese language press conference in Toronto that caused controversy in Canada.

McCallum said at the press conference that he thought Meng had a good case to fight extradition to the U.S. and listed
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he thought could help her.
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Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

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Registered Member
Jono said:
In a certain way, I could understand the feelings and anxiety of the western powers. They don't quite understand how China works, and are not keen to understand the history and culture of China, so these breed suspicions and distrust. On the other hand, the Chinese people had really suffered terribly from foreign invasions and humility in the past century, and so are determined not to let history repeat itself. Hence you can see so many Chinese scientists devoting their lives, and efforts selflessly to advance the cause of their Motherland.
And to make matters worse, this new usurper, a fast rising "authoritarian" country that is China, does not share the same political system or ideology of the western worlds, and coupling with the relative decline of the latter, antagonistic sentiments are understandably prevalent among the western people.
Therefore I suggest that we Chinese people should be confident in ourselves and our system, and remain calm and composed, and not to get upset easily in the face of criticisms, whether fair or otherwise.
We also need to know that our country is a big elephant, and surrounding countries naturally harbour a fear towards us. Therefore it is important for OBOR to be transparent and really beneficial to the involved countries, to attract love, and to dispel fear and suspicions.
When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.
Click to expand...
I
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I'm sorry. Althiugh in general I kinda agree with your post. I feel I've to take issues with a couple of points you've made.
One. That the western powers do not understand China. No! They understand perfectly. After all, they've been dealing with China for over two hundred years. And after dominating China for over two hundred years. They just wanted to keep that dominance a bit more longer.
And second, the transparency thingy. Both the "transparency and do not understand China" is created by the western MSM to excuse their own behaviour.
We have got to be on alert otherwise we would fall prey to their propoganda and start having sympathy for their agenda.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
hkbc said:
I am sorry this is laughable, the amount of b*llsh*t that written about "western" transparency beggars belief, post World War 2 there's been at least 24 covert CIA attempts at regime change around the globe. There's the Dollar diplomacy exercised by the US in Latin America and the East Asia and Iran Contra is probably the poster child of dodgy dealings!

The mythical debt trap (how many countries that have taken the Chinese "death" loans have died or even got sick) isn't even in the same category as the crap that's been done in the name of 'freedom', 'rules based world order' and mom's apple pie! We don't seem to see the news pages filled with debt trap loans by EU and IMF to Greece stories, now do we? Transparency is like beauty only exists in the eye of the beholder!
Click to expand...
Agreed 100%
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
gelgoog said:
No you are quite wrong here. It is not a racial issue. This is just corporate America at work. Or should I say the global corporations at work. Since the notion of corporate America seems to be out of date these days. They could care less about which country they made their wealth originally. They are pissed because they cannot control the Chinese economy to the degree they control other economies because of Chinese limitations on foreign ownership of companies in key sectors. This is about the economic lobbies in Washington DC pure and simple.

The Huawei issue is quite different though since it affects the security apparatus of the Five-Eyes countries i.e. the major Anglo-Saxon powers. It reduces their chances to spy or target other people. Same reason why their agents targeted Kapersky Labs a couple years ago. They had been making moves against them for a long time, but I think what finally made them pissed off, unlike what you hear in the news, is that they helped Iran fight Stuxnet. In Huwaei's case they are probably scared that Iran might actually get advanced communication systems that they cannot hack.
Click to expand...


I don't see anything you said that says otherwise. Corporations have a history of racism.
 
G

gelgoog

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AssassinsMace said:
I don't see anything you said that says otherwise. Corporations have a history of racism.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But as strong as the racist streak in the USA is, so is their fawning over people in positions of great wealth.

Let's start it like this.
The CEOs of NVIDIA and AMD are ethnic Chinese. The CEOs of Microsoft and Google are ethnic Indians.
In the case of NVIDIA the CEO is actually one of the founders of the company. One of the founders of Yahoo was also ethnic Chinese.

There is a different clique in the defense sector though. Because you need to be a US citizen to have a security clearance to work in most occasions.
So that is a wholly different ball of wax.

I think this is more about power and control than race. The Chinese state is too independent and solid for their taste. If you look at US foreign policy for Eurasia, it is similar to the UK's foreign policy in Europe. Much like the UK only did a major intervention in Europe when one power threatened to control the whole continent, the USA, since the past century, basically tries to prevent any large block to form in Eurasia that could oppose them. That's why they helped break apart the USSR then dissect its corpse and even to this day try to break the Russian Federation even further. They helped China modernize its economy to oppose the USSR but now that China itself is becoming a bigger threat they will seek to destabilize China. It is divide and conquer. It begins with a policy cleaning their own turf, containment, then later sanctions, and eventually cold or hot war.
Look at what's happening in South America. The political landscape changed radically over the last decade. Where before you had left-leaning or at least neutral nationalist rulers now you have increasingly right winged governments bending their knee to Washington DC.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

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Registered Member
"They helped China modernize its economy to oppose the USSR but now that China itself is becoming a bigger threat they will seek to destabilize China."

I'm not sure the US helped China to modernised? It certainly wasn't their intention. The US just wanted an extra weight to balance the Soviet threat.
It seek to do this by befriended China and offered her market for low cost goods in exchange for China buying their high techs like Boeing. Etc. (Deng pointed out to carter that China had to sell millions of low cost made in China shoes to buy one Jumbo jet).
It was a simple case of trade that could benefit both parties and at the same time keep China in the west orbit and away from the Soviet. That's all. It never was US intention to "help" China to modernised!
It was China's own sweat and toiled that make China what it is today!
 
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