Trade War with China

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
man, you given them too much credit they dont deserve.
Usually when things happened , most likely surprise them and get caught with their pants down!

look at this, when ZTE incidence happened, Chinese government for the first time have a procurement for domestic chips, which should happen long long time ago.


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clearly, they aren't prepared. Only reacting when bad things happened. It's a trend happens again and again.

I dont think they prepare for trade war at all, those investment you mentioned are likely for made-in-China 2025 initiative.

Making chip is one thing but running it with software is other thing You see you cannot just switch from window 10 to Longsoon overnight because there are not enough software that will run on Longsoon So the change will take time
There are zillion of software that will run on Window It is the standard

The same can be said of SOC for cellphone Qualcomm own the standard so you have to use their chip because that is what the whole world use

This is what the fight is all about defining the standard. For 4G it is too late for China. Chinese technology is not up to scratch 20 years ago when they formulate those standard
But now with 5G China is ready and the like of Huawei and other contribute greatly the formulating the 5 G standard They own the technology patent like chip, infrastructure etc

So your example of ZTE is misplaced

Government office has incentive to switch to domestic processor because concern of backdoor or kill switch. So it is not proof of readiness. They do it to as precautionary measurement
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Again Trump is short sighted because for years the US has tried to prevent China from developing another standard with technology like in telecom technology. Why? Because that'll make it cost more for US manufacturers if they want to sell their technology like cell phones and work in the Chinese market. Trump is more likely to push China in that direction.

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Look at the lying media linking Apple and Starbucks performance in China as a gauge on China's economy.
 
noted
Global stocks gain on hopes of a US-China deal. Are investors jumping the gun?

Updated 1033 GMT (1833 HKT) November 2, 2018
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Stock markets around the world climbed Friday on optimism about a potential ceasefire in the trade war between the United States and China.
The biggest rises were in Asia. Hong Kong's
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surged more than 4% while China's
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and Japan's
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both jumped about 2.5%.
The positive momentum started after US President Donald Trump on Thursday talked up the prospects of a deal on trade with Beijing after speaking with Chinese leader Xi Jinping by phone. Trump
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on Twitter that talks were "moving along nicely."

Asian markets then added to their gains after Bloomberg News
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that Trump has asked US cabinet officials to draft a possible trade deal with China ahead of a planned meeting with Xi at the G20 leaders summit in Buenos Aires later this month.

A spokesperson for China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs confirmed on Friday that Trump and Xi had made progress during a "deep discussion."
"I hope teams from both sides can implement the agreements achieved by the two countries' leaders," the spokesperson said.
Amid the buoyant mood, China's beaten down currency, the yuan, rose about 0.4% against the dollar. Major European markets gained around 1% in early trading, and US stock futures were up nearly 1%.
Global stocks are rebounding after
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. But Friday's uptick came despite a lack of details on how Trump aims to reach a deal with Xi after months of exchanging economic blows.
Just this week, the US government
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by banning American companies from exporting parts and software to a major Chinese state-owned maker of computer chips.
Investors may now be letting their hopes get the better of them, according to some market watchers.
Michael Every, head of Asia financial markets research at investment bank Rabobank, said he suspected Trump's upbeat comments were aimed at boosting market sentiment ahead of next week's crucial
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.
"This seems a perfect way to ensure equities rally into election day, put Xi into a box in terms of what is expected of him in the terms of the deal ... and then have someone to blame when the deal then falls through," Every said in an email.

The United States has slapped
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on over $250 billion of Chinese exports this year and is threatening more. China has retaliated with its own tariffs on more than $110 billion of US goods.
The Trump administration says it's trying to pressure Beijing to make deep changes to its economic policies, accusing it of overseeing the theft of US intellectual property and unfairly boosting Chinese companies through aggressive industrial programs.
China's efforts to get hold of
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are "an existential threat" to the future of the US economy, according to US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer.
Analysts are highly skeptical that China will agree to major changes that would address the US concerns — especially at such short notice.
"These are longstanding structural issues within the Chinese economy and cannot be reversed overnight," said Logan Wright, Hong Kong-based director of China research at research firm Rhodium Group.
***
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Making chip is one thing but running it with software is other thing You see you cannot just switch from window 10 to Longsoon overnight because there are not enough software that will run on Longsoon So the change will take time
There are zillion of software that will run on Window It is the standard

The same can be said of SOC for cellphone Qualcomm own the standard so you have to use their chip because that is what the whole world use

This is what the fight is all about defining the standard. For 4G it is too late for China. Chinese technology is not up to scratch 20 years ago when they formulate those standard
But now with 5G China is ready and the like of Huawei and other contribute greatly the formulating the 5 G standard They own the technology patent like chip, infrastructure etc

So your example of ZTE is misplaced

Government office has incentive to switch to domestic processor because concern of backdoor or kill switch. So it is not proof of readiness. They do it to as precautionary measurement
Isn't window not allowed under Chinese government purchase after snowden incidence? Microsoft made a special version yet still not approved. Loongson runs with domestic version of Linux. Jiangsu school purchase of loongson system runs with that.

Domestic spreadtrum supplies alot of SOC for middle and low end Android cellphone.

Domestic CPU was ready for awhile now, what's not ready is memory.
 
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B.I.B.

Captain
[QUOTE="AssassinsMace, post: 529716, member:

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Look at the lying media linking Apple and Starbucks performance in China as a gauge on China's economy.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps folks in China have woken up to the fact that Starbucks make shit coffee and iphones are overpriced.

the Starbucks franchise has never had much success in nz and their presence is shrinking in presence and patronage.
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Isn't window not allowed under Chinese government purchase after snowden incidence? Microsoft made a special version yet still not approved. Loongson runs with domestic version of Linux. Jiangsu school purchase of loongson system runs with that.

Domestic spreadtrum supplies alot of SOC for middle and low end Android cellphone.

Domestic CPU was ready for awhile now, what's not ready is memory.

Windows 8/8.1 was never approved. A special version of Windows 10 whose source code is given to the Chinese government for vetting is approved for government procurement.

If you're going to call domestic CPUs "ready" (despite being behind the forefront of the industry), then domestic memory is also ready. Just not DRAM.

Also, Spreadtrum is fabless, and it seems their chips are mainly produced in Taiwan by UMC.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
I don't know what are trying to do here Stunt before midterm election A way to juice up stock market?
From Asia times. This trade war is becoming albatross
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Is Trump trying to ‘juice’ the market with China trade deal ‘stunt’?
Stocks struggle to decipher mixed signals from the White House ahead of midterm elections
By
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NOVEMBER 3, 2018 4:28 AM (UTC+8)
Judging from stock market gyrations in recent weeks, Wall Street has not priced in an escalation in trade tensions with China that was telegraphed months ago by the president.

And judging from trading on Friday, which came amid an about-face from Trump who now says that a deal with China is coming, investors are still confused.

The week ended with a flurry of conflicting reports which suggested, respectively, that a deal was in the works and that, to the contrary, that is not the case.

Trump weighed in on Thursday with a tweet to the effect that talks were going well, adding more optimistic remarks on Friday afternoon which undercut comments from senior White House officials on the same day, including economic advisor Larry Kudlow.

Investors were apparently not sold on Trump’s insistence, with benchmarks chopping sideways following his remarks, after pairing some losses earlier in the day. All major benchmarks were down on the day.

One reason for skepticism is that no clear evidence has emerged that China is willing to budge on some of the Trump administration’s key asks.

“Yes it’s a big obstacle toward getting toward a deal with the Chinese government and think tanks not only avoid answering but sometimes sweepingly deny the allegations [of forced technology transfer],” said Michael Pillsbury, the resident China specialist at the Hudson Institute, the Washington DC-based think tank where Vice-President Mike Pence recently articulated the Trump administration’s China policy.

Pillsbury wrote in an email to Asia Times that a possible framework for a deal presented at Hudson by the Beijing-based China Center for Globalization, which went further than previous reported offers from Beijing, would be taken as an insult by the Trump administration.

BlackRock CEO Larry Fink shared a similar sentiment, speaking at a conference in New York on Thursday.

“I was in China a few weeks ago, and I do believe if the path remains the same in the next few weeks, we’re going to have a full-fledged trade war,” Fink said.

“China [is] a very strong, very proud nation. I think they’re going to stand firm,” he added.

The gap between China and the US on the trade impasse has led to speculation that Trump is trying to boost investor confidence ahead of crucial congressional elections to be held on Tuesday.

“If I was a deeply skeptical person – and I’m only a modestly skeptical person – I would say this is a stunt to juice up the market,” said James Pethokoukis, an economic policy analyst at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank.

When asked during an interview on CNBC whether he thought the escalation in tariffs would ultimately come at the end of the year, Pethokoukis sounded pessimistic.

“Listen, I still do [expect the new tariffs]. I fundamentally feel this is different […] than NAFTA which was really about getting a so-called better deal. I think this is really about us competing with China on the global stage.”

He added that creating the appearance that a deal was imminent would help Trump with his political base, many of whom depend on agricultural exports to China.

“I imagine, particularly folks in the Midwest, will really like that.”

George Magnus, former chief economist at UBS who is now an associate at the University of Oxford China Center expressed his agreement with that viewpoint, via Twitter:

I wrote this 3 days ago, and now Bloomberg reports Trump has authorised Cabinet to prepare for some kind of agreement with Xi following their conversation. Champagne or Shmalz? 1/n

Colour me cynical but Trump is posturing. Mid-terms next week. Create a buzz in the markets. Claim the high ground for making an initiative. Etc. China will/should be wary of coming to BA armed with concessions. 2/n

Before Trump’s comments on the trade deal in the works, stocks started the week on a down note following a report that trade would not even be on the agenda for an upcoming meeting between Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping at the Group of Twenty meeting in Buenos Aires later this month.

The rough start to the week came after a terrible October for US equities which sent benchmarks near correction territory and fueled speculation of a bear market.

On Wednesday, Trump advisor Larry Kudlow was the first to inject some optimism back into the conversation when he said in an interview with CNBC that tariffs were not “set in stone.”

“It is possible some good positive things could – I say could – come out of President Trump-President Xi talks. It’s possible,” Kudlow said.

Markets, evidently, are not sure which Kudlow – or which Trump – to believe.
 

advill

Junior Member
Don't trust Trump & his deal making. He is trying his best to win the Congressional Elections next week to show the Republicans that he is the god-like saviour of the US. He wants to show that only he can make US great again & doesn't care what others thinks. He has divided America & the world should never treat him like a bloody demo-god. Hopefully the Democrats will win both Congress & Senate next week, otherwise this dotard will bring disaster to the US & the World.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Also, Spreadtrum is fabless, and it seems their chips are mainly produced in Taiwan by UMC.

Spreadtrum sell lower end SOCs. If this is due to lack of funds, their client base, or limitations by their foundry partner (UMC) I don't know. But all of those could be factors.
MediaTek (which is a Taiwanese company) mostly dominates the middle end of the market and Qualcomm dominates the high-end. Apple and Huawei design their own high-end SOCs but at least Apple still needs to source the LTE modem from someone else and Qualcomm has the best LTE modem technology. In fact Apple sued Qualcomm because of this claiming they have a monopoly because they own a lot of patents which are used to implement LTE (which is a standard) in an energy efficient fashion.

Take this quote from the MediaTek Wikipedia page:
MediaTek started shipping chips with integrated 4G LTE baseband in volume in the second half of 2014, later than its largest competitor Qualcomm.
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The additional cost of the separate baseband chip required in every 4G handset made MediaTek's offerings more expensive and prompted some of its larger customers, like
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and
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, to choose competing SoCs like the Qualcomm Snapdragon 400 and 410 platforms, negatively affecting MediaTek's revenue stream.
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