Trade War with China


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canniBUS

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Question was simple, is there any information, data, event that can be considered as negative, or even neutral from the PRC government?

I It can be expanded to different dimensions as well.

Is there any information ,evidence that can supports that the trade war is good for US, and bad for China ?

IF there is no possible acceptable evidence for it ,then the whole forum is nothing else just an echo chamber.
Reddit spacing... you have to be 13 or older to post here son.
 
Question was simple, is there any information, data, event that can be considered as negative, or even neutral from the PRC government?

I It can be expanded to different dimensions as well.

Is there any information ,evidence that can supports that the trade war is good for US, and bad for China ?

IF there is no possible acceptable evidence for it ,then the whole forum is nothing else just an echo chamber.
Question is simple? You mean question is stupid, right, Mr. Salad Bowl? LOL Yes, yes it is. Everyday is mostly neutral; China's steady continued rise is neutral; it's what I've come to expect. Negative? That's what you're here desperately looking for, right? There's obvious selection bias on all the things you post but this is it being worded: you are here looking for possibilities to make Chinese people say bad things about their own country/government. It's a very pathetic goal/mission that you are on and it is a very low-intelligence approach that you have taken. You seem to offer people a choice: either bad-mouth China and give you what you want to hear, or be called an echo chamber. That's the punchline of your sad little trick for a sad little mind, isn't it? LOL You want other people to find evidence for your argument and if they can't or won't find it (likely because it's not true that the trade war is hurting China and benefiting the US), then that makes them a part of an echo chamber, right? haha So basically, your definition of an echo chamber is one where people cannot find evidence to support falsehoods. Very impressive "logic" game...
 
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Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
You just can't stop the sun from rising It is futile exercise via Don Juan

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Aug 26 2018 at 3:38 PM
Updated Aug 26 2018 at 7:17 PM
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The US cannot halt China’s march to global tech supremacy

by James Kynge
The moment may one day be glorified in propaganda art. As the mist rolled off the Yangtze river, Xi Jinping stood on top of the Three Gorges hydropower dam in Yichang, a proud symbol of engineering prowess, and proclaimed that China would blaze its own trail to become a technology superpower.

The Chinese president's immediate audience in April was a group of smiling workers in blue overalls. But his remarks were directed at the White House, from which rumblings of a trade war on China were emanating.

"In the past, we tightened our belts, gritted our teeth and built the two bombs [atomic and hydrogen] and a satellite," Mr Xi said. "In the next step of tackling technology, we must cast aside illusions and rely on ourselves."

Such rhetoric from the most powerful Chinese leader since Mao Zedong carries crucial weight. But, as a visual metaphor, the Three Gorges dam is more revealing than Mr Xi was prepared to acknowledge. Although the dam walls were built by Chinese companies, the turbines that generate its electric power were supplied – at least initially – by foreign companies.

Global leadership by 2025

The contradiction encapsulates China's dilemma as it ramps up a techno-nationalist agenda. Its official " Made in China 2025" programme calls for global leadership in various technological sectors by 2025, but its progress up the value added ladder has – to a significant degree – relied upon foreign technologies and intellectual property.

Thus, China's response to the trade war is set to be carefully calibrated. Chinese companies are being told by Beijing to cut reliance on US technology and intellectual property in their supply chains, replacing them where possible with alternatives from Europe, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and elsewhere.

"The US is fundamentally an unreliable economic partner," said one senior official at the State Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, the Chinese state-holding company with combined revenues last year of Rmb26.4 trillion ($US3.8 trillion). "It is just too risky to rely on them."

Can China really live without America? The answer supplied by financial markets appears to be "no", as reflected in the slide in the renminbi's value against the dollar and a concurrent fall in Shanghai stock prices. But over the longer term, China looks likely to prevail in two important ways. It may be able to de-risk its supply chain by reducing reliance on US imports, notwithstanding difficulties in key areas such as semiconductors. It may also attain its goal of global excellence in tech sectors including artificial intelligence, 5G telecoms, the internet of things, self-driving cars and battery technology by 2025.

One point in China's favour is that its de-risking activities may be applied only to imports from the US and not to components made by US companies in China. This is a significant factor: the value of products that US companies made and sold in China was about $250 billion last year, almost double the $130 billion in products imported from America.

The other consideration is the ready availability of alternatives to US tech products. Research by Haitong, a Chinese securities company, finds that in eight of 11 technology sectors the sales in Asia of products made in the EU, Japan, Korea and Taiwan outstrip those of products made in the US. The three sectors in which the US has clear dominance are semiconductors, semiconductor equipment and aerospace.

Semiconductors a lightning rod

The semiconductor industry, therefore, is the lightning rod for US-China tech rivalry. China's vulnerability was laid bare in April when the US banned ZTE Corp, a Chinese telecoms company, from buying American semiconductors and other technology for seven years. The sanction brought ZTE to its knees, before Washington offered a reprieve.

Yet semiconductors are also the area in which China's ambitions are clearest. Of some $300 billion committed to help deliver Made in China 2025, some $150 billion is earmarked to upgrade China's capacity in semiconductors, according to Dan Wang of the research group Gavekal.

And even in semiconductors, the US chokehold is far from total. If the sanctions on ZTE had been applied to its Chinese competitor, Huawei, the damage would have been easily contained. Huawei designs its own chips through a wholly owned subsidiary called HiSilicon, which ranks as the world's seventh largest chip design company.

China's record also underlines the foolishness of betting against its modernising verve. A decade ago, few would have predicted global dominance in smartphones. But last year, companies such as Huawei, Oppo and Vivo accounted for 43 per cent of global smartphone sales, eclipsing Apple in the US and Korea 's Samsung.


It seems clear that, while US opposition will make its ascent up the technology ladder slower and more painful, China will continue its climb.

Perhaps the story of the Three Gorges dam does – after all – point the way. Although its first turbines were supplied by European and US power equipment groups, two Chinese manufacturers raised their game quickly enough to participate in the project's later stages. Harbin Power Equipment and Dongfang Electrical Machinery are now taking business off their European and US rivals in other countries.
 
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by James Kynge
and this is interesting:
China’s Belt and Road projects drive overseas debt fears
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Ambitious programme dogged by doubts over ability to pay or high price tags
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in London


August 7, 2018



LOL Hendrik... your favorite SOEs inside
 

vincent

Senior Member
now checked on the author
and this is interesting:
China’s Belt and Road projects drive overseas debt fears
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Ambitious programme dogged by doubts over ability to pay or high price tags
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in London


August 7, 2018



LOL Hendrik... your favorite SOEs inside
The alternative offered by western countries is to do nothing
 
The alternative offered by western countries is to do nothing
there's an interesting point made in the discussion below that article:

"Atlguy Aug 8, 2018 One thing not discussed are the terms of the Chinese loans. These seem a bit secretive as they must be quite onerous. So not only are these countries borrowing too much but at very high rates. I think the Pakistanis are trying to keep from divulging these terms while still seeking IMF funding."

once I'm in the mood, I'll take a look what kind of scheme this Belt and Road is, LOL
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
US semiconductorrs also need Chinese integrators. The tech industry is highly symbiotic.

ZTE gets its reprieve otherwise Qualcomm and a whole bunch of other US tech companies are going to lose a major customer and get a major dent in their sales.

The top three smartphone manufacturers --- Samsung, Apple, Huawei --- make their own chips and can source from others. Qualcomm's feud with Apple meant that Apple will be dumping Qualcomm modems for Intel modems.

That leaves Qualcomm with the rest of the field --- LG, Sony, Oppo-One Plus, Vivo, Xiaomi, Lenovo-Motorola, Nokia, Asus, HTC. Fortunes for LG, HTC, and Sony continue to decline on the smartphone market however, which leaves you with Oppo, Vivo, One Plus, Xiaomi, Nokia and Motorola, all made in China. Samsung's phones in the US market uses Qualcomm SOCs, and their top end tablets too, but the rest of the world gets Exynos including their lower end tablets.

One Plus 6 will be launched with T-Mobile USA soon.
 

2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
once I'm in the mood, I'll take a look what kind of scheme this Belt and Road is, LOL
Very intrested to see your findings...but i have to admit, it's funny to say, but a marxist-leninist party (as CCP describes itself) , is impying somekind of this...

"In order for capitalism to generate greater profits than the home market can yield, the merging of
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and industrial cartels produces
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—the exportation and investment of
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to countries with underdeveloped economies. In turn, such financial behaviour leads to the division of the world among
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business companies and the
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. Moreover, in the course of colonizing undeveloped countries, business and government eventually will engage in
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conflict over the economic
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of large portions of the geographic world and its populaces. Therefore, imperialism is the highest (advanced) stage of capitalism, requiring monopolies (of labour and
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exploitation) and the exportation of finance capital (rather than goods) to sustain colonialism, which is an integral function of said economic model.Furthermore, in the capitalist homeland, the super-profits yielded by the colonial exploitation of a people and their economy permit businessmen to bribe native politicians, labour leaders and the
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(upper stratum of the working class) to politically thwart
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(labour strike)."

Took from V.I. Lenin's "Imperialism, the Highest stage of capitalism" (1917)

Imperialism is not always about guns and troop invasions
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
now checked on the author
and this is interesting:
China’s Belt and Road projects drive overseas debt fears
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Ambitious programme dogged by doubts over ability to pay or high price tags
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in London

August 7, 2018


LOL Hendrik... your favorite SOEs inside
I can't get access to your article. Just like Vincent said you either sit still with folding your hand or you do something about it
There is old Chinese saying if you want to get rich build a road that is as simple as that.
But building infrastructure by itself is not panacea It has to be accompanied by corruption free and efficient government Both goes hand in hand What most developing country failed is building efficient and competent government Here China can't be faulted because China CANNOT and WILL NOT get involve in other people government . China can only built infrastructure but cannot build other people government

China policy is to give people a fishing rod to fish but not the fish themselves Now even after giving fishing rod the the guy sleep all day those fishing rod had no use

China implement a policy that has been working spectacularly for the last 4 decade that is lifting 800 million out of poverty It is incumbent upon foreign government whether they want to copied China experience or squandered the aid . That is their choice and China cannot make a choice for them.
What China saying is here is our experience
In just over 30 years, China has managed to lift over 700 million people out of poverty, a milestone in human history of fighting poverty. Find out how the epic mission is accomplished in this mini-documentary
 

vincent

Senior Member
there's an interesting point made in the discussion below that article:

"Atlguy Aug 8, 2018 One thing not discussed are the terms of the Chinese loans. These seem a bit secretive as they must be quite onerous. So not only are these countries borrowing too much but at very high rates. I think the Pakistanis are trying to keep from divulging these terms while still seeking IMF funding."

once I'm in the mood, I'll take a look what kind of scheme this Belt and Road is, LOL
Risk premium if it is true
 
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