The War in the Ukraine

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Basic question, who has the best MIC? NATO or Russia?
The answer to the above question determines if its in Russia's interest to prolong the war or not (hint: its not)
first you have define MIC. and than what is best. single engine fighters may not reliable for high intensity sortie generation with low flying.
It is in Russia interest to prolong this conflict. here is ground video report from India.
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Russia has lost over 100 T-72B3 Obj 2016 tanks out of 570 (in less than three months btw) they got and those are equipped with Thales optics what are most sophisticated Russians have and can't be replaced. They were also strunggling with manufacturing home made optics (worse quality vs Thales) so I don't see how anyone can think Russia will be ready for attrition. Yeah, Russians have a lot of tanks... but most of them are older T-72 and T-80 models without any proper night-combat capabilities while Ukraine is getting that stuff for free.


Many writers in this forum live in made up reality where Russia has endless supplies of modern AFV's and capability to produce such weapon en masse. It doesn't have vast Soviet era armies full of men from different republics either... so throwing more men to the grinder isn't an solution because now those guys are Moscovites and other "our boys" not some men from Kazakhtans etc.
You're looking at this through western tinted glasses.

Russian tanks losses aren't as bad as oryx claims, he's biased. Ukraine doesn't have any tanks any more, and they have zero capability to repair or make new ones. At some point the west will have to switch to western tanks which are completely different to soviet type ones. Meaning everyone will need to be trained from scratch. In other words, putting a bunch of conscripts into a tank and sending them to the front lines. American tanks are good but they aren't wonder weapons. See how American tanks performed when operated by Iraqis against ISIS, or against the Houthis.

Even going by Ukrainian numbers they aren't killing many Russians any more. They do continue to get wrecked by Russian ballistic missiles alone.

As long as Russia can keep things as they are and avoid the temptation to fully mobilise, they can't lose. From the Chinese perspective this is perfect. The west is bankrupting themselves fighting another proxy war.
 

anzha

Senior Member
Registered Member
It would seem either I am pretty spot on or I am treading too close to propaganda. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable. I had said yesterday based on my own count the Russians had lost about 32 BTG and 12ish tank battalions. That's around 1/3 of the initial BTG the Russians started with. Along come the Brits with...

Britain says Russia has lost a third of its forces in Ukraine​


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( I put in the title just in case Reuters changes it again. Many news websites seem to do that these days)

I doubt I had any input into the British press release. However, it does make me want to be doubly sure about my numbers and what I am counting, etc. The reason being we are always in danger of falling into the trap of believing those who agree with us only. Confirmation bias is an evil bit...ahem problem. The modern internet is tuned specifically to feed us what we want to see and hear so we will watch and click more for their revenue reasons. The bubble is real and dangerous.
 

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
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