The War in the Ukraine

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
I believe the US goal is to prolong the war as long as possible.
If you look at the aid package, a lot of the money goes to US weapon production while a relatively small amount of the total goes to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan in that order.
If you look at it in absolute dollar terms the US and the EU combined are pouring like twice the annual military budget of Russia into Ukraine each and every year. But Ukraine is still getting clobbered.

No one has ever done a proper study on Russian Military PPP but looking at some Russian military programs I expect the Military PPP to have an adjustment of like 5. Western analysts, even when they adjust Russian military spending for PPP, they typically use the Civilian PPP which has an adjustment of like 3.

So even if the West spends twice the amount in nominal the Russians are still getting more than double the same equipment.

The money that goes into US weapon production, which you say isn't being sent to Ukraine, is used to replace weapons that they sent there that otherwise wouldn't need to be replaced. It is still money which is being lost that wouldn't have needed to be lost.

So prolonging the war has two benefits to the US.
1) Russia continues to burn human, economic, and military capital in pursuit of its goals.
Except that by annexing Ukraine, which the US is effectively forcing Russia into doing, Russia is increasing its population faster than it has been losing manpower. And they are also gaining prime land. Chernozem black soils. Plus more heavy industry. If the Russians continue further and also capture Kharkiv and Zaporozhye they will get the Kharkiv Tank factory and Motor Sich back.

2) US missile and ammo production is getting a much needed capacity boost to production. The longer the war goes on, the more money can be invested into weapon production capacity increase which takes time.
Except none of the weapons being used in this war will be of much use in a Pacific War against China. The US are spending money on yet another threat, much like the War on Terrorism, which will divert investment into technologies not useful for future wars. Which is the conflict the US was supposed to be aiming for. The US won't even dare try to fight a land war with China. So all investment into 155mm artillery round production, GMLRS, etc is just a waste of money and time. China has much longer range artillery and rocket artillery than Russia or any NATO country does. All these US and NATO weapon systems they are producing are already obsolete. And they won't even use them because, like I said, they won't even dare fight a land war with China.

If the US wants to counter China what they need is the Constellation class frigate, a replacement for the Arleigh Burke class destroyers, increase Virginia submarine production, improve long range naval strike capabilities. They need the 6th generation fighters. Instead they are defunding and delaying on all those programs to divert more funding to produce conventional and rocket artillery shells.

The US is risking losing any naval and air advantage they once had by plowing money into land warfare weapons they will seldom need.

What the US is actually doing is forcing the Russians to upgrade all their artillery after it being defunded for close to 40 years.
This will make Europe and the other countries neighboring Russia, like Kazakhstan, less safe rather than more.

Outside of those two goal, the US is committed to throwing a as big of a wrench into Russian foreign policy goals as possible.

From the US perspective, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a major upending of post Cold War European / World Order which is a direct challenge to the US. On top of that, they don’t view it as a legitimate invasion for any way shape or form.
No. When the Soviet Union collapsed the CIS was established. Georgia and Ukraine were in military and economic alliance with Russia. It is the US that messed the status quo by funding the overthrow of the governments in Ukraine and Georgia (the so called Orange and Rose revolutions) against the Helsinki Accords. Getting those countries to pull out of the CIS, militarize, and attempt to join NATO.

Russia is restoring the status quo. Those countries had been in the Russian sphere of influence for centuries. In Ukraine's case for longer than the US has existed as a nation. Russia would have been ok with those countries being independent and neutral but retaining economic ties with Russia. But the US just simply doesn't allow for countries to be neutral. With them it is always an us vs them proposition.
 
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TK3600

Captain
Registered Member
If you look at it in absolute dollar terms the US and the EU combined are pouring like twice the annual military budget of Russia into Ukraine each and every year. But Ukraine is still getting clobbered.

No one has ever done a proper study on Russian Military PPP but looking at some Russian military programs I expect the Military PPP to have an adjustment of like 5. Western analysts, even when they adjust Russian military spending for PPP, they typically use the Civilian PPP which has an adjustment of like 3.

So even if the West spends twice the amount in nominal the Russians are still getting more than double the same equipment.

The money that goes into US weapon production, which you say isn't being sent to Ukraine, is used to replace weapons that they sent there that otherwise wouldn't need to be replaced. It is still money which is being lost that wouldn't have needed to be lost.


Except that by annexing Ukraine, which the US is effectively forcing Russia into doing, Russia is increasing its population faster than it has been losing manpower. And they are also gaining prime land. Chernozem black soils. Plus more heavy industry. If the Russians continue further and also capture Kharkiv and Zaporozhye they will get the Kharkiv Tank factory and Motor Sich back.


Except none of the weapons being used in this war will be of much use in a Pacific War against China. The US are spending money on yet another threat, much like the War on Terrorism, which will divert investment into technologies not useful for future wars. Which is the conflict the US was supposed to be aiming for. The US won't even dare try to fight a land war with China. So all investment into 155mm artillery round production, GMLRS, etc is just a waste of money and time. China has much longer range artillery and rocket artillery than Russia or any NATO country does. All these US and NATO weapon systems they are producing are already obsolete. And they won't even use them because, like I said, they won't even dare fight a land war with China.

If the US wants to counter China what they need is the Constellation class frigate, a replacement for the Arleigh Burke class destroyers, increase Virginia submarine production, improve long range naval strike capabilities. They need the 6th generation fighters. Instead they are defunding and delaying on all those programs to divert more funding to produce conventional and rocket artillery shells.

The US is risking losing any naval and air advantage they once had by plowing money into land warfare weapons they will seldom need.

What the US is actually doing is forcing the Russians to upgrade all their artillery after it being defunded for close to 40 years.
This will make Europe and the other countries neighboring Russia, like Kazakhstan, less safe rather than more.


No. When the Soviet Union collapsed the CIS was established. Georgia and Ukraine were in military and economic alliance with Russia. It is the US that messed the status quo by funding the overthrow of the governments in Ukraine and Georgia (the so called Orange and Rose revolutions) against the Helsinki Accords. Getting those countries to pull out of the CIS, militarize, and attempt to join NATO.

Russia is restoring the status quo. Those countries had been in the Russian sphere of influence for centuries. In Ukraine's case for longer than the US has existed as a nation. Russia would have been ok with those countries being independent and neutral but retaining economic ties with Russia. But the US just simply doesn't allow for countries to be neutral. With them it is always an us vs them proposition.
With benefit of hindsight, the optimal strategy of US is to make Ukraine fight the Russians, but limit the level of support. Once the Soviet era gears are depleted in NATO, it is time to cull. The job of bleeding Russians are accomplished, at the cost of former Warsaw Pact stockpile that is not compatible with NATO. It can be considered of a victory of sort even if Russia win at that point.

Most likely that was the initial plan. But the political environment are hard to predict, so US ended up over commit and came out at a loss vs what Russians have committed.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
With benefit of hindsight, the optimal strategy of US is to make Ukraine fight the Russians, but limit the level of support. Once the Soviet era gears are depleted in NATO, it is time to cull. The job of bleeding Russians are accomplished, at the cost of former Warsaw Pact stockpile that is not compatible with NATO. It can be considered of a victory of sort even if Russia win at that point.
That is correct. By making European NATO get rid of existing weapons stockpiles, they will basically then force them to buy more US gear giving more money to the US MIC. Or at least that is what you would think would happen. But I doubt there is much Soviet gear left in NATO. So to make Ukraine continue they will have to feed US and other NATO weapons into the Russian woodchipper. This means there will be a huge allocation by NATO into land warfare weapons.

Seeing the F-16 getting clobbered in Ukraine will also cause its future sales to drop.

Most likely that was the initial plan. But the political environment are hard to predict, so US ended up over commit and came out at a loss vs what Russians have committed.
Confiscating Russian assets is a huge mistake by them. Just freezing them would have been more than enough. They can always print more money, so the idea that confiscating the Russian government reserves, in the form of their own currency in dollars or euros, provides them with some benefit is idiotic. What it does show is that they don't honor their debts. Since the Russian government got those reserves in their currency in the first place by selling the US and Europe raw materials. They are basically defaulting on raw materials payments.
 
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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not having armored vehicles means Ukraine will have to throw more meat into their attacks.
Given that their major lack is in available manpower, not vehicles, this will only make things worse.
 

Soldier30

Senior Member
Registered Member
Unique footage of a close flyby of a Russian Su-25SM3 attack aircraft next to a drone in Ukraine. Filming from a Russian drone, location unknown. Due to the close passage of the aircraft, the drone was thrown back by the aircraft's jet stream, from a height of 58 meters to 39 meters, the altitude sensor on the left.

 
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