Strategic implications of Chinese/US AI development


Registered Member
Given that Amazon Web Services is developing its own server chips, and if Huawei squeezes them as well, Intel might not have the financial resources to stay on the cutting edge of shrinking process (they're already having a ton of problems with 10nm, still stuck on 14 nm. As SMIC is supposed to deploy 14nm in 2019, there's the realistic chance that Intel will have the same tech level as SMIC for a few months next year).
Amazon's chips will be used in Amazon's cloud, which can end up not using Intel chips so that's already a big loss. Google is said to be working with Qualcomm on an ARM server chip but Qualcomm's ambitions were partly derailed because the NXP acquisition got derailed.

Because of ban of Intel server chips to China, Huawei's cloud chips can be used for Chinese cloud servers, but I think there are also other domestic competitors entering into this picture including China Mobile trying to develop their own cloud server CPUs.


Registered Member
S. Korean government had already fined Qualcomm a big bundle and determined it was a monopoly. That might have brought Qualcomm into the negotiating table with Samsung. China, Taiwan, and the EU has already determined Qualcomm as a monopoly in their courts and have fined Qualcomm, and the company is already under investigation in the US.

Samsung now fabs for Qualcomm, which both companies find mutually beneficial, given that Apple has pulled out of Samsung's fabs, and Samsung's fabs needed work. Samsung is allowed to use a certain number of the Qualcomm chips they fabbed for their own products. One example is that Samsung's Galaxy Tab A 10.1 tablet has been using an Exynos processor up to 2017, 7870 if I am not mistaken, but for 2018, they are using the Snapdragon 450.

As to whether Qualcomm chips are used for their "advanced modems" in the US, this is more likely because a Qualcomm chip in your smartphone also provides "patent protection" for the brand. Try to bring or use another chip, and Qualcomm may sue for patent licensing or have the product banned. Exactly what Qualcomm has been trying to do against Apple which has stopped using Qualcomm modems and used Intel instead.

My understanding is that Exynos does not come with its own modem on the chip, much like Apple's chips. The modem comes separately, and that can contribute to a higher cost, since the modem you would have to use is most likely Qualcomm's. Snapdragons have the modem incorporated with the chip which reduces your cost.

Now how does Huawei fit into the patent wars picture? Huawei also has tons of telecom patents, and is as litigatious as Qualcomm. They also sue here and there, just as much as they get sued. Because Huawei has its own huge patent umbrella, every litigation and counter litigation ends up as cross licensing. It was inevitable that Huawei and Qualcomm would come to blows but equally inevitable what the obvious result would be.
Actually, Huawei is farily restrained in terms of patent litigation. And it's in Huawei's interests for patent fees to be low, because they design, make and sell every sort of telecom gear imaginable.

In comparison, Qualcomm only makes a few component chips, and is notorious for trying to enforce its patent monopoly by charging much more than everyone else.


Via xyz I don't have a clue what is this DFB. Anyone well verse in this Chip maybe can give us peasant an intro Thanks
Chinese innovation is surging trying to stem the flood is like Don Quixote fighting the windmill
So much for stealing, cyber attack and other innuendo


导读: 据了解,DFB激光器芯片(分布式反馈激光器芯片),是三网(电信网、广播电视网、互联网)融合、云计算数据中心、4G/5G无线通信网络的关键器件,制造工艺非常复杂。







(来源:鹤壁新闻网 记者:李雪婷)
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Shi Jia photon company successfully developed a DFB laser chip

Introduction: It is understood that, the DFB laser chip (distributed feedback laser chip), three networks (telecommunications networks, radio networks, the Internet) fusion device key, cloud computing data center, 4G / 5G wireless communication network, the manufacturing process is very complicated .

"Our DFB laser chip has been developed, is expected to be the second half of the market, will produce up to 2 million or more." April 3, Wu Shi Jia-photon Henan lofty Technology Co., Ltd. Deputy General Manager told reporters .

It is understood, the DFB laser chip (distributed feedback laser chip), three networks (telecommunications networks, radio networks, the Internet) fusion, cloud computing data center , 4G / . 5G key device of a wireless communication network, the manufacturing process is very complicated. Currently, DFB laser chip manufacturing technology is mainly in the hands of developed countries, Germany, the United States and Japan. Shi Jia Photonics this technological achievements have complete independent intellectual property rights, will fill the gaps in the field.

Currently, high resolution lithographic apparatus for the production of a DFB laser chips, scanning electron microscopy, X-ray diffraction, chip test system, microwave and microwave network analyzer probe test systems imported equipment installation have been completed, the product enters trial stage. Up to now, the company has invested nearly 200 million yuan project.

According to reports, since the beginning of this year, located in Hebi economic and technological development zones of Shi Jia photons company not only achieved new breakthroughs in the DFB laser chip project, also continue to increase investment in R & D and new product development efforts, several new product development We have made gratifying progress.

One of the company's main research and development of products - used in the data center wavelength division multiplexing chip, already have production conditions, can produce more than 2000 wafers, put into operation to bring 30 million yuan of annual sales revenue; 100G optical transceiver component products now also has small batch production. Meanwhile, the company to civil-military integration as an opportunity to set up a Sega Institute of Information Technology Co., Ltd., and actively promote the company's products to achieve docking and expansion in other areas.

"Shi Jia Photonics rapid development in recent years, remain passive optical splitter chip global leading position last year, sales revenue of over 600 million yuan; optical network optical splitter and arrayed waveguide grating chip key chip technology and industry projects, was awarded the national Science and technology progress Award second prize. this year we will continue efforts for a breakthrough in the core chip and two levels of industrial scale, innovative play Sega Photonics, led the city has 'core' of the central Plains light the rapid development of the valley. "Wu Broad said.
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Via Adam wang
"Huawei is not afraid of any blockade. Just do it yourself and speak with strength." Ren Zhengfei's confidence in Huawei should be the unanimous attitude of the Chinese. The scientific and technological strength will break all doubts, defamation, and filth. One day, the initiator will miss opportunity, causing technology losses, what is the future of Huawei 5G, let the global people wait and see!

Huawei has won 26 5G orders worldwide. Do you know which 26 countries are?

2018-12-26 15:33:37
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According to the China Media Roundtable on December 25, Huawei Chairman Liang Hua said that Huawei has obtained 26 5G commercial contracts worldwide and signed cooperation agreements with more than 50 business partners around the world. The number of commercial shipments of 5G base stations has exceeded 10,000.

However, Huawei did not disclose the specific 5G order country details. It is always heard that Huawei has won the 22nd 5G order and won 25 5G orders worldwide. However, I still don't know which countries these 25 orders come from. In fact, Huawei has already obtained 22 5G commercial contracts in the world. According to the news analysis of Huawei's 5G orders.

The 22 countries and regions are: Spain, Ukraine, Austria, Germany, France, Switzerland, Britain, Turkey, Russia, Malaysia, Monaco, Latvia, Portugal, Lebanon, United Arab Emirates, Oman,China (including China Hong Kong ), Indonesia, Brazil.

Recently, the news also claimed that India, Finland, South Korea, Malaysia, the Czech Republic, and Italy also threw out the intention of cooperating with Huawei 5G. Some news also said that India, Finland and other countries have signed contracts with Huawei 5G, counting India and Finland. Huawei has only 24 5G orders, of which the UK is the 25th 5G order in the news report, so there is still one order for which country. As of now, Huawei has 26 5G commercial contracts worldwide.

In fact, no matter how many 5G orders Huawei has won, the strength of Huawei's 5G communication technology cannot be underestimated in the world.

In the past, there was a normal progress of the United States intervening in China's Huawei 5G. In conjunction with the other five countries, China's Huawei 5G been accused threatened the so called national security and prohibited the use of Huawei equipment. Among them were France, South Korea and the Czech Republic, but it was ridiculous. Yes, France has been using Huawei's communication equipment, and South Korea's report in the past few days also stated that it did not threaten national security after testing Huawei 5G. The Czech Republic is also called a wrong action for banned the use of Huawei.

The importance of 5G in the future technology strategy, we must be clear to everyone, so the United States, Japan, South Korea and many other countries are arranging 5G market, and China Huawei is the leader in researching 5G communication technology, as early as 2009. Started investing huge sums of money in research and development. After nine years of grinding a sword, it is time for Huawei to reveal its true strength.

Huawei's 5G communication technology can be regarded as the first in the world, and Huawei's 5G orders have surpassed well-known technology companies in global business. Ericsson, Qualcomm, Samsung Electronics and Nokia have become the leading 5G leaders in China.

"Huawei is not afraid of any blockade. Just do it yourself and speak with strength." Ren Zhengfei's confidence in Huawei should be the unanimous attitude of the Chinese. The scientific and technological strength will break all doubts, defamation, and filth. One day, the initiator will miss opportunity, causing technology losses, what is the future of Huawei 5G, let the global people wait and see!


Registered Member
China should bomb some western corporations that make certain breakthroughs and call it an accident as well just like the Americans did to China. Beidou guidance failure because of that hopeless Chinese copy cat quality. What are they going to do? attack China? me thinks not.

China should assassinate key western scientists around the world and call them suicides too.

Right now China's far too magnanimous and sure of itself to play as dirty as the westerners. The facts remain that Chinese experts and scientists have been held in western prisons and murdered by western governments. Chinese embassy bombed by the US in a supposed "accident" with no remorse or compensation. They keep this up, and China will respond in kind. They were the first to make China an enemy and continues to do so despite countless methods China has offered for peaceful co-operation and prosperity. They want it all and have murdered millions to get what they want in the past. Why should China expect them to act and think differently. Where is the point in spending the time to reason with the unreasonable? What they do is pretend to be fair and reasonable and civilised but will resort to violence and kidnapping when it needs to be done. It's just a facade of civility and fairness. Waste no effort. Just counter mercilessly.

Recent trade wars and Huawei drama should bolster this in the minds of all Chinese and non-western humans around the world. It IS "us vs them". It's always been but they have continued to find lines of division to fracture our unity and the strength that can develop out of unity.


Junior Member
It is quite hilarious to see some export ban backfired. The Intel server chip ban (to me the ban did not reach its main objective, since there were alternative to creating super computer) caused China to create its own. This also lead AMD to change a bit of their strategy by partnering with the Chinese on some chip design, which led to IP transfer voluntarily on some architecture (and US did not want IP transfer)

Additionally, the bans are forcing Chinese company to look for alternatives in not using US components, which would hurt US semiconductor industry. (ZTE was an example that scared the market, since they used a lot of qualcomm components)
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No need to huff and puff The main thing is keep working hard and try to achieve self sufficiency It is just matter of time before china will become independent in Chip production Here is the list of Chinese companies that supply Chip making equipment via XYZ answer to Inst question

What's the full list of technologies needed for foundry independence? I'm guessing the 5nm AMEC plasma etcher is one of them, what else is needed for China to move into 5nm?

SMEE (lithography)
AMEC (etch, deposition)
Piotech (deposition)
ACM and Kingsemi (surface conditioning)
Tianjin Hwatsing (flattening equipment CMP)
Raintree (inspection)
Wuhan Jingce Electronic (testing equipment)
NAURA (thermal processing, etch, deposition, materials, cleaning tool)
PNC Process Systems (cleaning tool)
CETC (ion implanters, inspection, materials, laser, CMP, lithography, deposition, cleaning, packaging and testing)
ASM Pacific, Hangzhou Changchuan Technology (Chip assembly, testing and packaging equipment)
Zhejiang Jingsheng (semiconductor materials)
HGTECH (Laser equipment)
ACKEN Optoelectronics (Laser equipment, semiconductor materials)
Konfoong Materials (materials)

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Via xyz
Foxconn to Manufacture CIS in China

Nikkei, EETimes: Foxconn Technology (AKA Hon Hai Precision Industry) is preparing to build a $9b chip fab in the southern Chinese city of Zhuhai. The new fab will manufacture image sensors, chips for 8K TVs, and various sensors for industrial uses and connected devices, according to Nikkei. The construction is expected to start in 2021 (2020, according to Semimedia).

A majority of the investment is to be subsidized by Zhuhai city government. The new fab will rank as one of the country's top high-tech projects, according to Nikkei sources. The fab will make chips not just for its own use but for other customers, competing with TSMC, Globalfoundries, Samsung foundry unit, and SMIC.

According to Nikkei, Foxconn is expected to form a JV for the project with Sharp, which it acquired in 2016, and the Zhuhai government. However, Semimedia reports that Sharp denies its involvement in the project.

Meanwhile, Japan Times says that Sharp is going to spin-off its semiconductor business into two entities. One of them will be responsible for lasers, the second one - for sensors and other semiconductors. Sharp Chairman and President Tai Jeng-wu told reporters that he wants to tap overseas and domestic resources, showing eagerness to forge alliances with other firms including Sharp’s parent, Hon Hai Precision Industry (Foxconn).

Currently, Sharp manufactures semiconductor-related products at its plants in the prefectures of Hiroshima and Nara.


Via xyz China has no other choice but pressing on with the development of domestic chip making equipment and basic chip making material. I see opportunity instead of disaster It will provide the much needed impetus to buy domestic equipment! Where before they were relegated to 2nd tier supplier

"We still see a massive gap with global rivals," Ding said last week at the conference. "But the [Washington-Beijing] trade frictions are not necessarily bad for us... At least all of us from the government, business leaders, to ordinary people have reached a consensus that it is important to form a local chip ecosystem as soon as possible."

China seeks chip self-sufficiency in face of US export control fears

CHENG TING-FANG, Nikkei staff writer
7-9 minutes

Chinese chip industry is worried not just that the trade battle could hit demand but also concerned that the Chinese government could retaliate on the U.S. with limits on American imports. © Reuters

WUXI, China -- Yao Lijun knows how important it is for China to break the dominance of U.S. and Japanese companies in making materials for chip production. "Otherwise, other countries could easily seize us by our throats and cut the lifeline anytime," said the chairman of Konfoong Materials International, one of China's largest suppliers to the chip industry.

Konfoong Materials (KFMI) is China's largest maker of ultrapure titanium, copper and several chipmaking materials. When Yao Lijun founded the company in 2005, he says he had already realized the importance of developing self-sufficiency in semiconductors. Yet few of China's business leaders or government officials shared his vision.

That has changed since the mounting trade war with the U.S., which could escalate even further in the coming days with a new wave of tariffs.

"The whole industry has finally learned a hard lesson and recognizes that we have to develop everything, literally everything, including chip materials that were relatively unpopular but crucial on our own," said Yao at last week's Integrated Circuit Industry Development Seminar, one of the Chinese chip industry's most important annual gatherings. Relying on the global industry may no longer be sustainable, he added.

Yao's remarks underscore the increasing concern in China's burgeoning chip industry that, in addition to new tariffs, President Donald Trump's administration could soon step up controls to prevent the export of crucial semiconductor tools and materials to China.

Although it is still uncertain whether the U.S. will move ahead with export controls, many tech companies are playing it safe by looking for non U.S. suppliers to avoid further trade war risk. Nikkei Asian Review reported earlier this year that many Chinese tech companies such as Huawei, Haier, Media Group, BYD, and others have already quietly shifted some chip orders outside of the U.S.

Chinese chip manufacturers are also looking beyond American providers, according to industry executives.

"Chinese chipmakers have started to talk to Japanese and European equipment and material vendors and others to initiate a contingency plan," Yang Wenge, vice president of marketing strategy at Entegris, a U.S. chip material builder told the Nikkei Asian Review. The chip industry is worried not just that the trade battle could hit demand. They are also concerned that the Chinese government could retaliate on the U.S. with limits on American imports.

Restrictions on U.S. exports of equipment and materials would deal a severe blow to China's ambitions to build a domestic semiconductor industry. It could cause massive delays in chip factories currently under construction in China including the country's first advanced memory project Yangtze Memory Technologies. New controls could also hinder expansion by Semiconductor Manufacturing International Co., the nation's top contract chipmaker, while many global players such as Samsung, SK Hynix, TSMC, and Intel are also expanding production sites in the country.

The prospect of a U.S. crackdown has sparked calls for action to accelerate the development of a Chinese supply chain.

"We know we are lagging far behind... and we realize the cutthroat danger," said Ye Tianchun, Director of the Institute of Microelectronics at the Chinese Academy of Science, the country's top research agency. "We know we have to be self-reliant and develop an industry over which we have control. I urge domestic chip manufacturers to strongly support emerging local equipment and material suppliers."

Chip tools and materials are essential enablers for manufacturing semiconductors, yet China-based companies account for less than 1% of the global market, according to industry association, SEMI. While China has developed competitive chip designers such as Huawei's chip unit Hisilicon Technologies and leading chip testing and packaging house Jiangsu Changjiang Electronics Technology, it still struggles to create its own versions of Applied Material, Lam Research, KLA-Tencor, and Dow Chemical -- the world's top equipment, materials and chemicals suppliers to the chip industry.

The challenge has been to build expertise through years of basic science research, while it also takes years to pass durability and quality tests, says an official at China's Ministry of Science and Technology. As a result, China's chip makers and designers have been heavily reliant on foreign suppliers and they are now vulnerable, she says.

"We really face serious threats and risks brought by the escalating trade war," Chiu Kang, deputy supervisor at China's Major National Science and Technology Project, a program focused on developing the sector. "Most of the chipmakers we talk to hope to find domestic suppliers as soon as possible to replace foreign ones."

Nevertheless there are those who see some upside in the fallout from the U.S. administration's crackdown on tech exports to China. It could help to accelerate the government's ambitions to develop self-sufficiency say some in the industry.

In 2014 Beijing launched a 137.8 billion yuan ($20.1bn) fund to invest in the sector, with the aim of encouraging further investment from local government and private capital. The China Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund has so far and financed about 50 companies involved in manufacturing, design, testing, packaging and equipment, and materials. The so-called "Big IC fund" has supported local equipment and material makers such as Naura Technology Group and Anji Microelectronics, China's answer to Applied Materials and Dow Chemical. However, this sector accounts for just 8% of the funding and more needs to be done.

This year Premier Le Keqiang made the chip industry a national priority and the second stage of funding is expected to reach more than 200 billion yuan. Ding Wenwu, head of the big IC fund says the new funding could be used to develop advanced chip technology such as 3D NAND flash memory, core processors and field-programmable gate-array [FPGA] chips, a type of high-end programmable chip. He also stressed that building a Chinese supply chain of equipment and materials was crucial too.

"We still see a massive gap with global rivals," Ding said last week at the conference. "But the [Washington-Beijing] trade frictions are not necessarily bad for us... At least all of us from the government, business leaders, to ordinary people have reached a consensus that it is important to form a local chip ecosystem as soon as possible."

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Senior Member
Registered Member
China right now heavily speculated that its the work of US causing the Malaysian MH370 airplane to be mysteriously disappeared and fell into the ocean because there were over 60 Chinese semiconductor engineers from ZTE, Huawei there.

Its very possible, recent Chinese professor zhang shousheng
in Stanford committed suicide right after US FBI talked with him about possible his leak of tech to China.

US wanted those Chinese scientists and engineers die!

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