South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

Blitzo · May 16, 2015

climax said:
And yes, I don't understand what was dash-line claim base on and it legitimate.

Well that's basically the underlying issue, everything else is just window dressing.

And prior to China's reclamations there was no compromise because China clearly was not satisfied with the position of all nations involved in the disputes relative to each other.

I agree that China is deliberately being ambiguous regarding its dashed map, however through their public announcements and reinforcements I don't think they've actually claimed the entire SCS within the line as their territorial waters, rather only the islands within the line. Unfortunately no one seems to have requested a clarification surrounding just what the line means.

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Equation said:
That possible conflict is just a way and excuse to contain China. How can one manage something or someone's land that don't belong to you? The only "conflict" China is facing in the SCS are the media's. Other than that, no one really cares for a bunch of rocks being building up to an island in the middle of the sea.

It is not only a media fabricated story. The US has shown it has an interest in the SCS so it will be a point of potential conflict that needs to be managed, and China should not assume that other nations will stand idly by nor simply assume that a crisis or a hot war is something that cannot arise from this flashpoint.

Yvrch · May 16, 2015

climax said:
What China did, changed her position in SCS, what Vietnam or Malaysia did, only improve their postion in negotiation.

And sorry for some confused words, I'm doing some work, join discussion on three forum, so a bit confused...

I don't know exactly what Chinese leader want in their mind, but in common thought, we all know sealine on SCS is vital stream for all South and East Asia countries, especially China, Japan, and Korea, two is USA's ally.
Surely, If China can control it or control part of it, great for China. You can know it benefits. (control, not ban it)

Like I said, China was reclaiming on Paracel, and even Vietnam, only in parties has disputed with China, also rarely to complain anything.

Surely, China should use their resource and power to achieve their claim, but just like I said above, China claim differ from the other.

The other parties claim include EEZ, and (or) extended continental shelf, and Islands on SCS, while China was dash-lines map.

Even they can keep this status quo, and all parties accepted, China can't achieve their claim, and has no power to control SCS or southern part of it.
But when You made new big Islands, it is very possible when negotiation come to it end, everyone must accept China has Islands which enough conditions to had not only 12 nm territorial water, but also has its 200nm EEZ.

With more sovereignty along with her power , China could made other nation obey their demand, or "fishing ban", "prevent illegal economic activities" will come in regular.

You can have your army, your house, your city, nobody dispute it, but these area in disputed status.
And we had compromise, no change the status quo, de facto.

And yes, I don't understand what was dash-line claim base on and it legitimate.

I think you are missing the forest while counting the trees.
If I were you, I'd be sitting down and thinking about the long land border with China that won't go away for eternity.
Those little outcrop of rocks in SCS do not make Vietnam any more secure than it already is.

Equation · May 16, 2015

Bltizo said:
It is not only a media fabricated story. The US has shown it has an interest in the SCS so it will be a point of potential conflict that needs to be managed, and China should not assume that other nations will stand idly by nor simply assume that a crisis or a hot war is something that cannot arise from this flashpoint.

Yeah but do you think China will just stand idly by as other nations took what belongs to them? And the US "interests" in the SCS is just a fig leaf to contain China by using other smaller nations as rhetoric and intimidation by numbers.

Equation · May 16, 2015

Yvrch said:
I think you are missing the forest while counting the trees.
If I were you, I'd be sitting down and thinking about the long land border with China that won't go away for eternity.
Those little outcrop of rocks in SCS do not make Vietnam any more secure than it already is.

Those "little outcrop of rocks" in the SCS don't belong Vietnam in the first place. So NO, Vietnam will NOT be threaten by China regaining control of their islands and territories that rightfully so belongs to them.

climax · May 16, 2015

Equation said:
You mean it gave China a stronger claim on the Spratly islands than the other players? Why should China not change that status quo when it historically belongs to them in the first place? The so called COC can't change that fact or history.

There you're, again: historical, everyone claim they had historical record about sovereignty on SCS.
Chinese historical record about Paracel was weak to compare with Vietnam, China position in Spratly was weak, only reef under water, no right to claim anything.

Yvrch said:
Climax, with all due respect, you have already admitted China has already changed de facto status in SCS. Would Vietnam be able to do the same thing in SCS ? Maybe, but not likely. You may want to play it off China against US and Japan in SCS, harp on Vietnam's solid claim on SCS, whatever you may choose, won't change the fact that it is what it is, China has made islands in SCS.

Vietnam can do the same things, but not fast as China did. Joshuatree had post one pic about Sand Cay as proof.

What did Vietnamese leader think !? I don't know.
Though they send out strong words about sovereignty on SCS, get close to Japan and USA, but they're still want to tie more relationship with China.

Two MOD minister 're just met at Vietnam - China border.

Equation · May 16, 2015

climax said:
There you're, again: historical, everyone claim they had historical record about sovereignty on SCS.
Chinese historical record about Paracel was weak to compare with Vietnam, China position in /QUOTE]

Well that's your opinion, but history says otherwise. Ignore history at your own peril.

Yvrch · May 16, 2015

Equation said:
Yeah but do you think China will just stand idly by as other nations took what belongs to them? And the US "interests" in the SCS is just a fig leaf to contain China by using other smaller nations as rhetoric and intimidation by numbers.

Equation, you need to accept the fact that US is a legitimate player in the region, that includes SCS. You cannot possibly miss or ignore the power and presence of US in the region. They do have legitimate interests in the whole region, whether we like it or not.

Blitzo · May 16, 2015

Equation said:
Yeah but do you think China will just stand idly by as other nations took what belongs to them? And the US "interests" in the SCS is just a fig leaf to contain China by using other smaller nations as rhetoric and intimidation by numbers.

I never said China shouldn't do anything to reinforce its claims, I'm just saying China needs to be careful to manage the way it carries out its aims because the threat of war is real.

And regardless of why the US is in the SCS, the fact is it is there, and the threat of conflict regarding SCS is real and all sides, China, US, and other SCS states, need to be aware of it.

In other words China can't just do whatever it wants without careful consideration of the fallout. Because that would be stupid. China I think has calibrated its actions quite deliberately and carefully, and should continue to do so.

climax · May 16, 2015

Yvrch said:
I think you are missing the forest while counting the trees.
If I were you, I'd be sitting down and thinking about the long land border with China that won't go away for eternity.
Those little outcrop of rocks in SCS do not make Vietnam any more secure than it already is.

Vietnam - China land border was settle down by the treaty, no more disputed, Tokin gulf was done.
This 21 century, nobody want to be invader and make war, so main play ground was SCS which still in disputed.

Equation · May 16, 2015

Yvrch said:
Equation, you need to accept the fact that US is a legitimate player in the region, that includes SCS. You cannot possibly miss or ignore the power and presence of US in the region. They do have legitimate interests in the whole region, whether we like it or not.

You need to accept the fact that the American people will not accept another war or conflict just for a bunch of rocks in the middle of the sea, regardless of the fire power it has. You can't possibly think society can stomach another round of casualties and PTSD veterans coming home with no employment and suffering from various social issues with the economy as it is today. China is not some Iraq or Afghanistan either easily being pushed around.

South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

Blitzo

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Yvrch

Junior Member

Equation

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Equation

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climax

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Equation

Lieutenant General

Yvrch

Junior Member

Blitzo

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climax

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Equation

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