South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)


This thread will be about the South China Sea strategies of other nations (not China).

It is a place where the reclamation efforts in particular of other nations can be posted and discussed, but also where those other nation's strategies for protecting their interests (short of talk of war between nations) can be discussed too.

Please post Vietnam's, the Philippines, Malaysia's, and other nation's efforts (including what the US does, other aligned nations, etc) here.

Post the Chinese strategies and efforts on the :

China's South China Sea Strategy Thread

Thank you...and carry on!


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Philippines resuming construction work, and more he said she said.

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China 'seriously concerned' by Philippine's building in South China Sea

(Reuters) - China's Foreign Ministry expressed serious concern on Friday after the Philippines said it would resume repair and reconstruction works on disputed islands in the South China Sea, saying Manila was infringing on Chinese sovereignty.

The Philippines had halted activities last year over concerns about the effect on an international arbitration complaint filed against China.

Manila called on all countries last October to stop construction work on small islands and reefs in the South China Sea, most of which is claimed by China.

China itself is undertaking massive reclamation works in the area, while Taiwan, Malaysia and Vietnam have also been improving their facilities.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said it was "seriously concerned" by the remarks by Philippine Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario.

"On the one hand the Philippines makes unreasonable criticism about China's normal building activities on its own isles, and on the other announces it will resume repairs on an airport, runway and other illegal constructions on China's Spratly Islands, which it illegally occupies," Hua said.

"This is not only a series infringement of China's sovereignty, but it also exposes the Philippines' hypocrisy," she told a daily news briefing, calling on the Philippines to withdraw from the islands.

The Philippines foreign ministry said the works, including repairs to an airstrip, did not violate an informal code of conduct in the South China Sea because they would not alter the status quo in the disputed area. The 2002 code was signed by China and 10 Southeast Asian states in Phnom Penh.

In 2013, Manila filed an arbitration case at The Hague questioning the maritime boundaries claimed by Beijing. Del Rosario said Manila expects a decision in February next year.

Hua repeated that China would not participate in the case.

China claims almost the entire sea, believed to have huge deposits of oil and gas. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan also claim the area, where about $5 trillion of seaborne trade pass every year.

(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Simon Cameron-Moore)
 
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shen

Senior Member
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Binay: 'China has money, we need capital'
Vice President Jejomar Binay calls for a 'joint venture' with China in developing the resources in the disputed South China Sea


Paterno Esmaquel II
Published 6:57 PM, Apr 14, 2015
Updated 10:39 PM, Apr 14, 2015


BOOSTING TIES. Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Zhao Jianhua (right) pays a courtesy visit to Philippine Vice President Jejomar Binay (left) on April 15, 2014. Photo courtesy of the Chinese Embassy in the Philippines

MANILA, Philippines – In a preview of his approach toward China if elected president, Vice President Jejomar Binay stressed China's economic might as he pushed for bilateral talks between Manila and Beijing over the disputed South China Sea.

"May pera po ang China, kailangan po natin ng kapital (China has money, we need capital)," Binay said in an interview on Saturday, April 12, over the radio station DZYM in Catarman, Northern Samar.

His office sent to reporters the transcript of the interview on Tuesday, April 14.

In particular, he called for a "joint venture" between the Philippines and China in developing the natural resources in the South China Sea, parts of which the Philippines calls the West Philippine Sea.

The Vice President – who wants to become Philippine president in 2016 – said he hopes the Philippines can improve its trade relations with China despite the maritime dispute.

Binay made these comments days before President Benigno Aquino III on Tuesday said China's actions in the South China Sea
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around the world.

Earlier, the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) slammed China for building artificial islands in the West Philippine Sea.

On Monday, April 13, the DFA said China's reclamation activities in the disputed waters
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300 acres of coral reefs and resulted in around $100 million in economic losses among coastal states.

In contrast to Binay's personal stance, the Philippines under Aquino has issued more provocative statements against the Asian giant. (READ:
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)

Sea row 'until after death'

The Philippines' boldest move against China came in January 2013. It filed an arbitration case against China before an arbitral tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration based in The Hague, The Netherlands, to demolish China's expansive claims over the South China Sea.

Pursuing this case, the Philippines filed a 4,000-page memorial or pleading against China in March 2014, and
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in March 2015.

Manila expects a ruling against China by 2016.

Binay pointed out, however, that China will refuse to heed the arbitral tribunal's ruling. (READ:
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)

For him, this means the Philippines should continue its dialogue with China over the two countries' competing claims over the South China Sea, which the Philippines calls the West Philippine Sea.

"'Yung problema natin sa Tsina, nakakalungkot, pero tanggapin po natin na hindi naman po matatapos 'yan kaagad. Siguro, ilang taon na tayong namamatay eh hindi pa rin nareresolba 'yan," he said in the radio interview.

(The problem with China, sadly, will not be resolved immediately. Perhaps we would have died by many years, and we wouldn't have resolved the problem.)

In a position close to Binay's, Filipino-Chinese businessmen earlier said the Philippines should set aside its differences with China to avoid missed opportunities for the Southeast Asian country.

Dr Alfonso Siy, president of the Federation of Filipino-Chinese Chambers of Commerce and Industry Incorporated,
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: "The Chinese are getting rich and starting to travel. Chinese tourists are very rich and love to spend money so it’s a good opportunity to get more businesses, income, and create jobs."

Latest government data show China is the Philippines' third biggest trading partner, following Japan and the United States. – Rappler.com
 

solarz

Brigadier
The Philippines' boldest move against China came in January 2013. It filed an arbitration case against China before an arbitral tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration based in The Hague, The Netherlands, to demolish China's expansive claims over the South China Sea.

Pursuing this case, the Philippines filed a 4,000-page memorial or pleading against China in March 2014, and
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in March 2015.

Manila expects a ruling against China by 2016.
LOL, mighty optimist of them...
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier

Soldiers take part in a parade celebrating the 40th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
Picture: AP Photo/Dita Alangkara


Back to bottling my Grenache
 

joshuatree

Captain
McCain is blustering...and it is political.

China was invited to and was well behaved and a significant input to RIMPAC 2014 in the activities they were involved with. There was no security breach to my knowledge, and no real threat.

To my knowledge, there has not been an official invitation to 2016 (though most expect it), so it would not be possible to "dis-invite them" since they have not been invited yet.

They could simply not invite them.

At this point, I think such a move would do more harm than good, and would have little if any positive impact on the PRC's actions..

If the US wants to show displeasure about the reclamation efforts in the SCS, they should form a coalition with Australia and Japan and then work with Vietnam, the Philippines and other nations with similar claims in the SCS and help them do more reclamation on their own reefs and islands.

That would be more suitable, and could be argued, just as the PRC is arguing, that reclaiming your own possessions harms no one, and is not an offensive move...but yet would make the statement in far better a way than not inviting the PLAN to RIMPAC would.

But that is just my opinion.
I believing discussing under this thread would be appropriate Jeff?

In my opinion, forming any coalition to sponsor any reclamation whether outright military garrisons or under the guise of commercial activity simply will not work. There are several factors that differ between China's reclamation and any coalition reclamation.

- It has never been a contest of simply China vs another single claimant within the SCS. So by sponsoring reclamation with one or even multiple claimants, the US in essence would be taking sides and "validating" recipient country's SCS claims. Not gonna go well with the other respective claimants. If there's any new reclamation from any of the other claimants, it will have to be their own initiative which we see with Taiwan's improvement of Taiping and Vietnam's reclamation on Cornwallis South Reef.

- Any reclamation is supposedly a violation of the Code of Conduct per some of the claimant's argument. The Philippines in particular plays this moral high ground card heavily and in some ways, has put itself into a tight spot. Vietnam's current reclamation has already violated this non-binding agreement so it wouldn't fly if they tried to use this argument going forward. Will the Philippines abandon this too? If it does, that UNCLOS lawsuit ain't gonna go well for them.
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
So by sponsoring reclamation with one or even multiple claimants, the US in essence would be taking sides and "validating" recipient country's SCS claims.
In the face of China doing the same on their reefs...not really. Particularly if it is commercial monies and commercial companies being hired by the claimants themselves.

Any reclamation is supposedly a violation of the Code of Conduct per some of the claimant's argument. The Philippines in particular plays this moral high ground card heavily and in some ways, has put itself into a tight spot. Vietnam's current reclamation has already violated this non-binding agreement so it wouldn't fly if they tried to use this argument going forward. Will the Philippines abandon this too? If it does, that UNCLOS lawsuit ain't gonna go well for them.
China s doing reclamation aggressively on their own reefs and possessions.

They can simply point to China's actions to give them reason for the same type of non-belligerent response.

Other nations working with commercial companies and taking out loans to do the same on their own reefs and possessions would be the proper response...and would be one China in particular could not really argue against.

That's all.
 

joshuatree

Captain
In the face of China doing the same on their reefs...not really. Particularly if it is commercial monies and commercial companies being hired by the claimants themselves.

China s doing reclamation aggressively on their own reefs and possessions.

They can simply point to China's actions to give them reason for the same type of non-belligerent response.

Other nations working with commercial companies and taking out loans to do the same on their own reefs and possessions would be the proper response...and would be one China in particular could not really argue against.

That's all.
Commercial activity would be highly unlikely without some form of state sponsorship. No international entity is going to risk the wrath of one or more rival claimants if this was a pure business venture. A local company hired by respective claimant is possible but as you've mentioned, it takes $$$ to finance the operation as well as technical capacity and claimants themselves may not have such resources. It's obvious any reclamation based on the premise of commercial activity will be a non-profitable venture for quite some time so a typical commercial loan will never pass an underwriter's evaluation. This all points back to a need for some sort of soft loan from another country and we're back to square one with a direct link to US/US ally involvement and who they fund will make the other rivals aside from China question such action. This can unwind the loose existing coalition.

The SCS situation has always been a very difficult Mexican standoff. As imperfect as it may have been, the JMSU was the best platform to further the concept of joint use of those waters but that got shot down so badly, it's hard to fathom any potential similar deals in the immediate future. The venture at the time even spelled it out putting aside any sovereignty issues.
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Commercial activity would be highly unlikely without some form of state sponsorship. No international entity is going to risk the wrath of one or more rival claimants if this was a pure business venture. A local company hired by respective claimant is possible but as you've mentioned, it takes $$$ to finance the operation as well as technical capacity and claimants themselves may not have such resources.
Yes, which is, as you say, what I have said.

This all points back to a need for some sort of soft loan from another country and we're back to square one with a direct link to US/US ally involvement
Yes, which is what I said from the beginning.

The US, Australia, and Japan...perhaps others...would have to come together and help finance and support such an effort.

The SCS situation has always been a very difficult Mexican standoff. As imperfect as it may have been, the JMSU was the best platform to further the concept of joint use of those waters but that got shot down so badly, it's hard to fathom any potential similar deals in the immediate future.
Which is also what I have indicated when I said that although such an effort would probably be the best way to counter what China is doing, that I do not think the administrations and legislative bodies in any of those nations have the stomach or will for such an effort.

While we can discuss and debate such an effort, such a conversation is really probably just an exercise in futility anyway because it is not likely at all to happen.
 

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