South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

confusion

Junior Member
Registered Member
News on the surreptitious repair work being done by the Philippines aboard the Sierra Madre - activities that have been taking place despite official government claims, from earlier, that they've "halted all repair work" in the SCS while waiting on the results of the UN case. This also belies the "no work has been done here" image that they've been portraying to multiple foreign reporters that have visited the ship recently.

I'm actually a bit surprised that they've allowed this news to leak out right now, right when the UN case is still being presented.

The last bit is also interesting, and perhaps reflects the quixotic approach taken by the Philippines towards this dispute - pinning their hopes on US intervention in the event of an altercation around the Sierra Madre due to the fact that the Sierra Madre is technically still a commissioned ship in their navy.

Philippines reinforces its claim to South China Sea outpost
Navy is quietly renovating a rusting ship that it uses as a foothold on one of the reefs in Spratly Islands - territory that is disputed with China

The Philippine navy is quietly reinforcing the hull and deck of a rusting ship it ran aground on a disputed South
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Sea reef in 1999 to stop it breaking apart, determined to hold the shoal as Beijing creates a string of man-made islands nearby.

Using wooden fishing boats and other small craft, the navy has run the gauntlet of the Chinese coastguard to move cement, steel, cabling and welding equipment to the BRP Sierra Madre since late last year, two navy officers who have been inside the vessel told Reuters in recent interviews.

The 100 metre-long (330-foot) tank landing ship was built for the U.S. Navy during World War Two. It was eventually transferred to the Philippine navy, which deliberately grounded it on Second Thomas Shoal to mark Manila’s claim to the reef in the Spratly archipelago of the South China Sea. A small contingent of Philippine soldiers are stationed onboard.

...

“We know China has been waiting for the ship to disintegrate but we are doing everything to hold it together,” said one of the officers, adding that while the work was progressing slowly, it should be finished by the year-end.

The other naval officer said welding was being done at night because of the heat. Concrete foundations were being laid inside the ship’s hull to try to stabilise it, he added.

Without giving exact dates, both sources said they witnessed the repairs taking place earlier this year. They declined to be identified because they were not authorised to speak to the media.

...

Asked about the repairs, Philippine Foreign Ministry spokesman Charles Jose declined to comment. But such work would not violate an informal code of conduct signed in 2002 by China and Southeast Asian states that prohibited any change to the status quo in disputed areas, he said.

“In our view, repairs and maintenance of existing facilities are allowed ... especially if such repairs and maintenance work are for the safety of our personnel and safety of navigation,” Jose added.

The Philippine Defence Ministry declined to comment.

...

A Philippine general familiar with the repairs told Reuters the ship’s hull and deck were being strengthened, and air-conditioning units added.

“We are improving the living quarters inside, to make life for our soldiers more comfortable,” he said, declining to give further details about the repairs or be identified.


...
Besides being a military outpost, the BRP Sierra Madre is also a commissioned Philippine navy ship.

That means Manila could request U.S. military assistance under a decades-old security treaty with Washington if the ship was attacked, said senior Philippine military officials.

“Even if it’s covered with rust, it will remain an active duty commissioned navy ship. It’s a symbol of our sovereignty,” said the Philippine general.

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Consider this, being considered a active base by a military service IE having personal means that it has to have a degree is maintenance for daily operations. The hull is decades old and in poor shape as is. What you call "repairs" is basically trying to keep the damned thing from falling apart and caving in on top of the Philippines Marines crew, killing them. Unless they pull in large vessel and try to rebuild the whole thing these Repairs are standard house keeping in a non standard situation.

As to being grounded yet considered a active base, many Navy stations and ports as well as training centers for Navy's world wide name themselves like ships and are listed in a similar way. Basically if it has a crew it can in a stretch be considered a naval vessel on active duty. This differs from a vessel that is mounted and lacking of service personnel. IE the USS Constitution is crewed by members of the US Navy and maintained by the Navy well the USS Texas is mounted and kept only by the parks department. So the Texas is retired well Constitution is considered the oldest active navy vessel in commission.
 

delft

Brigadier
The one odd thing in this fragment of the Guardian article - "especially if such repairs and maintenance work are for the safety of our personnel and safety of navigation” - is the remark on the safety of navigation. Who dares or is able to navigate the wreck?
I wonder how much time would be needed to lay wave protection on the reef and surround the wreck with sand if China decided to do so. Just curiosity, I don't expect such a development.
Or perhaps build an island on another part of the reef and claim the wreck has to be removed because it is within 12 nm of the island?
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Safety of navigation in this case delft is not referring to want of moving the ship but quite the contrary.
Parts of the ship are still sea worthy part of it will float on there own if they came loose. If they did they could become a danger to any ships in the area.... Like say the PRC coast guard ships that circle it.

Its kinda like a predator trap in paleontology. The trap is like a sink hole or a tar pit. A animal will try to cross over it and get stuck after a while the animal attracts predators and scavengers who in turn become trapped.
In this case however the carcass its self is the risk to the predators as if it broke up the Chinese coast guard would be placed at risk.

Man made islands can not be recognized as sovereign territory. The whole point of having the ship grounded is the Philippines are occupying the reef and keeping the PRC from trying to build a artificial island. If the Chinese government tried to do that well the Philippines occupy the reef no court would recognize the Chinese claim of a 12NM because the Philippines in this case could claim that the Chinese action is the weaker claim and that they were already occupying the spot. The Chinese know they can't move in and make the claim as long as the Philippines Marines are there.
The only actions available would be to either force removal by making it so impossible to man the ship that the Philippines give up or FORCED removal which would start a dust up in the Philippines sea and if so much as a hair on a single Marines head was hurt it could turn into a war. The PRC stratagem is based in the former over the latter. Isolate the reef from the Philippines in a siege and starve them out (more figuratively).
 

delft

Brigadier
Safety of navigation in this case delft is not referring to want of moving the ship but quite the contrary.
Parts of the ship are still sea worthy part of it will float on there own if they came loose. If they did they could become a danger to any ships in the area.... Like say the PRC coast guard ships that circle it.

Its kinda like a predator trap in paleontology. The trap is like a sink hole or a tar pit. A animal will try to cross over it and get stuck after a while the animal attracts predators and scavengers who in turn become trapped.
In this case however the carcass its self is the risk to the predators as if it broke up the Chinese coast guard would be placed at risk.

Man made islands can not be recognized as sovereign territory. The whole point of having the ship grounded is the Philippines are occupying the reef and keeping the PRC from trying to build a artificial island. If the Chinese government tried to do that well the Philippines occupy the reef no court would recognize the Chinese claim of a 12NM because the Philippines in this case could claim that the Chinese action is the weaker claim and that they were already occupying the spot. The Chinese know they can't move in and make the claim as long as the Philippines Marines are there.
The only actions available would be to either force removal by making it so impossible to man the ship that the Philippines give up or FORCED removal which would start a dust up in the Philippines sea and if so much as a hair on a single Marines head was hurt it could turn into a war. The PRC stratagem is based in the former over the latter. Isolate the reef from the Philippines in a siege and starve them out (more figuratively).
You're likely right. I wonder if the wreck and its crew will survive a bad typhoon.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
If a Typhoon that powerful wrecked the Philippines ship on the reef my money is that it would probably also wipe out the Chinese artificial islands as well. It takes decades for soil to solidify properly and even when it does soil liquefaction is a issue that pops up often. A strong Typhoon of Tsunami could clean slate the whole thing in a instant.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
It takes decades for soil to solidify properly and even when it does soil liquefaction is a issue that pops up often. A strong Typhoon of Tsunami could clean slate the whole thing in a instant.

One can actually compact the soil to withstand a typhoon is one way of doing it. I believe China has already have that in mind when they were doing reclamation work, otherwise the soil would be too weak to hold the foundation to those buildings or a runway for that matter. It's NOT just dredging sand and piling it on top of one another.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
isn't soil liquification more a result of geological and not climactic phenomena?

I found this, so I hope this will answer your question.

In an extreme case, the porewater pressure may become so high that many of the soil particles lose contact with each other. In such cases, the soil will have very little strength, and will behave more like a liquid than a solid - hence, the name "liquefaction".
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Yes there is compacting but that is only a partial solution even compacted the soil or sand moves. Reclaimed soil still settles and sinks and moves, and if the water table changes enough due to storm flow or a powerful wave comes in or a earthquake of just the right epicenter , depth and magnitude rolls in those islands might as well be Alka-Seltzer tablets.

Even time can break them down case in point the Kansai International Airport in Japan is built on a artificial island. When it opened its doors in 1994 they predicted that by 1999 it would sink 19 feet when 1999 rolled around they did the math it had sunk over the years by 27 feet.
In San Francisco California, during a earth quake a hotel a whole multiple story hotel sinks!

Equation my friend. To Quote " Don't be to proud of this Technological terror you have constructed... Is insignificant to the power of the Force."
Mother nature loves a challenge and time and time again she has happily tossed the so called indestructible works of man to the side like a child with toys. If mother nature wants it gone she will wipe it out and there is nothing we little humans can do about it.
 
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