solarz
Brigadier
solarz:
You are quoting from the wrong person. I didn't write that. climax did.
Sorry, must have messed up the quoting.
solarz:
You are quoting from the wrong person. I didn't write that. climax did.
There's difference point of view.
You think China reclamation was responding to other countries, but like I explain, it's like how China made reef under water become outpost with big garrison and forty with gun and men.
_ Philippines hasn't resource, so they keep their old garrison, even on rotten ship.
_ Malaysia expanded their post long time ago, and seem like PRC had not any complain.
_ Same with VNese, simple, we began on small Island and sand field, to improve life conditions after we took control from South VN.
_ China began on Spartly with all reef that they take from VN after battle 1988, all under water when tide up.
It's far, far away from China mainland, yet PRC made them become strong outpost, even with big radar station in vast sea.
So we all do the same at before, improve your post in limit, enough for garrison, no more outpost. It was fair and agreed term.
_ But now, after become great power, it's clearly, China has more resource to turn a mere reef become huge artificial islands.
This event continue after many other actions made tension rise on the region. They took Scarborough shoal from Philippines, even could take Eldad Reef if VNese has weak react.
PRC excuse was not reasonable enough for their intention was prepare for create new ADIZ, which was believe by many experts.
It's just like how they want to drilling oil on disputed area, because VNese had drilling in undisputed area where was turn out also disputed in Chinese eyes because it was inside their 9-10-11-dash-lines map which cover nearly 90% of SCS.
Zachary Abuza, an independent Southeast Asia security analyst, explains that these are amongst the more than a dozen manned outposts that Vietnam maintains on small islands and features in the Spratlys. These include fairly large islands, including Spratly Island, which has its own airfield, as well as small concrete structures constructed on rocks barely above the surface at high tide, as well as steel-constructed lighthouses and aids to navigation.
"All of the outposts include personnel from the Vietnamese military, as well as from different government ministries and serve the purpose of asserting Vietnamese sovereignty," Abuza told DW.
Hanoi, in turn, defended its construction activities in the area, noting they have not affected the status quo, nor escalated underlying regional tensions over territorial disputes. Speaking to reporters in Hanoi on May 14, Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said the nation's actions in this regard were "normal and lawful," adding that the "infrastructure improvement projects" are meant to meet the basic needs of residents on the Spratly Islands managed by Vietnam.
China contends that it is simply doing what other countries are doing, and in that regard, experts argue Vietnam's land reclamation projects undermine its protests against ongoing Chinese reclamation efforts.
PRC is not going to create a SCS ADIZ unless someone else does it first or local basing is established by significant Japanese or US forces. An ADIZ is more of a political tool and only has as much practical effect as its enforcement. At the same time such an enforcement capability can exist without an ADIZ.
Because China is only interested in resolving its own territorial disputes, not that of its neighbors.
That is to say, China wants to negotiate individual resolutions with, say, Vietnam and PH. If, after those negotiations, Vietnam and PH still has a dispute between themselves, that's not China's business.
So you're saying China's whole plan all along was to dominate the SCS via its claimed territorial boundary?
That's not impossible, because after all we should remember that this is a territorial dispute after all, however if you're specifically wanting to look at who started tensions unfortunately you will have to compare who started
reclamation first.
That said, China's current round of reclamation isn't necessarily just a response to that of other SCS states, but rather it reflects its own interests and perceived capabilities of the present. However if you're trying to pin the blame on
China for increasing tensions by reclaiming islands it is pretty hypocritical to ignore what other states in the region have also done in their own claimed islands in the past.
This is a territorial dispute after all, and one can hardly fault China for doing more expansive reclamation than other states have done given it has the ability to.
If other countries were not willing to compromise and instead actually expanded their holdings or expanded reclamation, then that basically throws any good intentions out of the window anyway.
Eventually I suspect the long term goal is for China to dominate the SCS and then negotiate a complete resolution to the territorial disputes from a position of power.
I was very specific in the timeline that I commented on. Every ASEAN gathering, the Philippines and Vietnam led the charge on wanting the organization to come out with some
harsh statement against China. The actual and more subdued statements always refer back to the ideals within the code of conduct. A lot of examples you listed predate the code of conduct. When looking from 2002 onwards, we
have proof that Vietnam was reclaiming land before China started. So in this most provocative activity (compared to building huts, satellite dishes, and greenhouses), China wouldn't be the initiator. What principle is Vietnam relying
on to call out China for not adhering to the ideals in the code if it was actually committing the same violations? Your explanation is that it's always been ongoing but that means it's been ongoing with Vietnam too. So saying the
code was trashed by China doesn't hold. It's the pot calling the kettle black.
In the case of land reclamation, I'm certain China had drafted plans for it but I do believe with limited sized platforms and Vietnam just chugging away at slowly reclaiming with zero scrutiny from other parties, it was a threshold
crossed that prompted response and they opted to just do everything at once because with this action, there is no going back.
I can understand the frustration of other smaller claimants in SCS where they have fallen way behind what China has done in last couple of years. But if your protestations are aimed to stop or shame China's ongoing land reclamation and infrastructure buildings on them, you've already lost it. What US is doing so far, sending a littoral cruise ship, is just symbolic, no more no less.
Reclamation by Vietnam being picked up in German media. Sand Cay before/after pic below.
So the answers are the same as China. As for not changing status quo or escalating tensions, that is highly subjective. The answers fail to explain why Vietnam should be exempted from criticism on not adhering to the spirit of the code of conduct if it's such a big deal to the rest of the other claimants.
Glad to hear there is still some objectivity but it's a minor voice being drowned out.