South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

Zerozen

New Member
You made two mistakes in your first sentence that case doubt on your entire thesis about ‘bad China.” ASEAN countries were never delusional about China, since they lived with the giant for hundreds and even thousands of years. All of them seek to balance Beijing and Washington so they gain maximum benefit from both countries, without offending either. Far from being delusional, ASEAN countries conducted good state craft.

Your history seems far fetch right there. the existence of one entity doesn't mean its the same from the past, it may carry the name and history but not its conscientiousness.

Empirical evidence show China’s reemergence has been relatively peaceful, when compared with rise of most of the other great powers. Far from being a revisionist power, China generally supports the current international order. China did not instigate current SCS troubles, as its actions were in response to changes to status quo by other claimants. In fact, until 2010, it did little build ups in the SCS, while other claimants reclaimed land, built airstrips, and established military bases.

China's reemergence is not relatively peaceful nor internally quiet. You are forgetting the leaps and revolutions they did. Also the support of international order is always ends in an agenda. As for SCS, all claimant parties are instigators and its just a matter of time one strong actor creates a new status quo.

Problem with your narrative is ASEAN and pre-ASEAN countries have been relying on the US for their security since WWII. They also looked to Washington for economic development for most of that period. But in the last decade, China displaced US as Asia’s economic hegemon. ASEAN will continue to lean of US for security, because Uncle Sugar is willing to provide. When that picture changes, ASEAN will look for a new sugar daddy for security. It may be China, Japan, India, or a group of nations in a ‘Concert of Asia.’

ASEAN countries are very cautious on an uncanny new power trying to dominate them. But because of the United States( they're not so bad ones you get to know them) has a positive reputation even as an adversary. Reputation is a important currency. When you term "Sugar daddy", you pretty much strip these countries as a sovereigns. One thing, China is not an economic hegemon of asia. if already has, economic embargo has to be demonstrated and a powerful tide able to pull the whole asia down, hence your empirical evidence is needed.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Your history seems far fetch right there. the existence of one entity doesn't mean its the same from the past, it may carry the name and history but not its conscientiousness.
You're wrong on facts, because peoples and civilizations indeed acquire national conscientiousness, and they're called culture.

China's reemergence is not relatively peaceful
This is a silly statement. You could count on one hand the number of conflicts or wars China was involved in since it's reemergence, and that's far and away better than all other post-industrialization great powers.

You are forgetting the leaps and revolutions they did. Also the support of international order is always ends in an agenda. As for SCS, all claimant parties are instigators and its just a matter of time one strong actor creates a new status quo.
This is really convoluted and hard to follow logically. Want to uncoil it and make it more clear?

ASEAN countries are very cautious on an uncanny new power trying to dominate them. But because of the United States( they're not so bad ones you get to know them) has a positive reputation even as an adversary. Reputation is a important currency. When you term "Sugar daddy", you pretty much strip these countries as a sovereigns. One thing, China is not an economic hegemon of asia. if already has, economic embargo has to be demonstrated and a powerful tide able to pull the whole asia down, hence your empirical evidence is needed.
Wow, so many problems in this paragraph. Here are my repose-
1) If individual AEASN countries think China is trying to dominate them, then it is by choice because they all want China's largess, and they try to stay on China's good side.
2) "US has positive reputation, even as an adversary." What??? What ASEAN adversary of US are you talking about?
3) The term "sugar daddy" in my context simply means a powerful benefactor country. Nothing to do with stripping nations of their sovereignty.
4) Here's a dictionary definition of "hegemon," and China does indeed qualifies as the economic hegemon of Asia.
hegemon
(ˈhɛɡɪˌmɒn; ˈhɛdʒɪˌmɒn; ˈhiːɡɪˌmɒn; ˈhiːdʒɪˌmɒn)
n
a state or group in ascendance over others
 
it's very recent:
The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China
The U.S. Navy has dispatched a small armada to the South China Sea.

The carrier John C. Stennis, two destroyers, two cruisers and the 7th Fleet flagship have sailed into the disputed waters in recent days, according to military officials. The carrier strike group is the latest show of force in the tense region, with the U.S. asserting that China is militarizing the region to guard its excessive territorial claims.

Stennis is joined in the region by the cruisers Antietam and Mobile Bay, and the destroyers Chung-Hoon and Stockdale. The command ship Blue Ridge, the floating headquarters of the Japan-based 7th Fleet, is also in the area, en route to a port visit in the Philippines. Stennis deployed from Washington state on Jan. 15.

The Japan-based Antietam, officials said, was conducting a "routine patrol" separate from the Stennis, following up patrols conducted by the destroyer McCambell and the dock landing ship Ashland in late February.

The stand-off has been heating up on both sides. After news in February that the Chinese deployed an advanced surface-to-air missile battery to the Paracel Islands, U.S. Pacific Command head Adm. Harry Harris told lawmakers that China was militarizing the South China Sea.

"In my opinion China is clearly militarizing the South China Sea," Harris testified on Feb. 24. "You’d have to believe in a flat Earth to believe otherwise."

Overnight, Chinese officials
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that China was militarizing the region, pointing to the Stennis's patrol as evidence that the U.S. was to blame for the increased military tensions.

“The accusation [that China is militarizing the region] can lead to a miscalculation of the situation,” said Fu Ying, a spokeswoman for China's National People's Congress. “If you take a look at the matter closely, it’s the US sending the most advanced aircraft and military vessels to the South China Sea.National People's Congress

A Pacific Fleet spokesman downplayed the heavy U.S. presence in the region.

"Our ships and aircraft operate routinely throughout the Western Pacific — including the South China Sea — and have for decades," Cmdr. Clay Doss said in a statement. "In 2015 alone, Pacific Fleet ships sailed about 700 combined days in the South China Sea."

However, experts say sending Stennis and its air wing to the South China Sea is a clear signal to China and the region.

"Clearly the Navy and DoD is demonstrating its full commitment to presence and freedom of navigation in the region,” said Jerry Hendrix, a retired Navy captain and analyst with the Center for a New American Security in Washington, D.C. “With the full carrier strike group and the command ship, the Navy is showing the scope of its interests and ability to project presence and power around world.”

The destroyer Lassen's vaunted October patrol within the 12-mile limit of China's man-made South China Sea islands was the first challenge of China's sovereignty over the Spratly Islands since Chinese land-reclamation projects began there.

On Jan. 30, the destroyer Curtis Wilbur patrolled near Triton Island, part of the Paracel Islands chain China also claims.

Six nations in the region lay claim to parts or all of the disputed islands chains. The Spratly Islands, a collection of reefs, rocks and other natural features, have been the site of extensive Chinese land reclamation projects. In the last two years, China has begun constructing islands on top of reefs and claiming territorial seas around them to gain exclusive fishing and resource rights to most of the South China Sea.

These disputes have led to violence in the past. In 1974, a conflict between South Vietnam and China led to a shootout in the Paracel Islands, located between Vietnam and China's Hainan Island. That dispute continues.
source:
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Blackstone

Brigadier
it's very recent:
The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China

source:
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I don't see any official indication in the article the CSG is for confronting China. In fact, I doubt US officials would do that, because it will likely lead to a major response from Beijing that might include militarizing the Spratlys, which is exactly the opposite of what US and regional countries want. I think the CSG has more to do with DPRK's outrageous statement on putting their nukes on preemptive mode.
 
it's very recent:
The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China

source:
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related:
US-aircraft-carrier-patrols-contested-South-China-Sea-1024x680.jpg
US aircraft carrier patrols contested South China Sea, shadowed by Chinese warships
A full-blown aircraft carrier group with USS John C. Stennis at the helm transited the Luzon Strait March 1 and is now conducting patrols in the South China Sea.

The news comes in the wake of U.S. Pacific Commander’s
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that the U.S. Navy would increase its presence in the South China Sea. Admiral Harry B. Harris said the U.S. Navy would sail, fly and operate wherever international law allows.

The announcement was made in response to reports of Beijing’s actions the region. It has been said that China was “clearly militarising” the region by setting up missile launchers on the disputed islands.

According to the U.S. Navy, the John C. Stennis Strike Group (JCSSG) entered the region on March 1 and has maintained a location in the eastern half of these international waters for four days.

USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74), USS Chung-Hoon (DDG 93), USS Stockdale (DDG 106) and USS Mobile Bay (CG 53) all conducted a replenishment-at-sea receiving advanced biofuel, aviation fuel and supplies from USNS Rainier (T-AOE 7). Flight operations have occurred daily with Carrier Airwing (CVW) 9 conducting 266 sorties.

Numerous People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLA(N)) vessels have remained in JCSSG’s vicinity during this time period.

Capt. Greg Huffman, Stennis’ commanding officer, said: “We have Chinese ships around us that we normally didn’t see in my past experience.

“Everything I have heard over bridge-to-bridge channels has been good communications between professional mariners,” he added.

In recent months, other U.S. Navy ships have conducted similar events in the 7th Fleet area of operations including the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG 54), USS Lassen (DDG 82), USS Preble (DDG 88) and USS McCampbell (DDG 85), the multi-purpose amphibious assault ship USS Essex (LHD 2), the amphibious dock landing ship USS Ashland (LSD 48), the Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Chancellorsville (CG 62), and the Freedom-class littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3).

However, Chinese officials declared two such sails as
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as they claimed that USS Lassen and USS Curtis Wilbur came too close to islands in the Spratly archipelago which China claims for itself.
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
related:
US-aircraft-carrier-patrols-contested-South-China-Sea-1024x680.jpg
US aircraft carrier patrols contested South China Sea, shadowed by Chinese warships

source:
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The Stennis is "projecting power" in the region, to counter China's aggressive expansion and militarization in the South China Sea, we are responding to provocative actions in a calm and sincere manner. Go Big John and accompanying peacekeepers!

Far from being a "Sugar Daddy", we remain neutral, we would respond in exactly the same manner were one of our other trading partners threatening Chinese sovereignty.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
The Stennis is "projecting power" in the region, to counter China's aggressive expansion and militarization in the South China Sea, we are responding to provocative actions in a calm and sincere manner. Go Big John and accompanying peacekeepers!

Far from being a "Sugar Daddy", we remain neutral, we would respond in exactly the same manner were one of our other trading partners threatening Chinese sovereignty.
We're anything but neutral vis-a-vis SCS, since it's fairly easy to show US policy makers love to see China's efforts to control the SCS come to naught. Now, one could argue whether that's a worthy goal, but calling it neutrality is wrong.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Here is another "Neutral" activity that is going to take place in SCS.

U.S. plans naval exercises with India and Japan in Philippine Sea

India, the United States and Japan will hold naval exercises in waters off the northern Philippines near the South China Sea this year, the U.S. military said on Wednesday, a move likely to further raise tensions with China.

The announcement comes a day after the United States warned China against militarisation of the South China Sea, where Beijing is locked in a territorial dispute with several countries, saying there would be consequences.

Last year, India and the United States expanded their annual naval drills in the Bay of Bengal to include Japan after a gap of eight years, in a move seen as a response to China's growing assertiveness in the region.

Admiral Harry B. Harris, head of the U.S. Pacific Command, said the naval exercise will be held in the northern Philippine Sea and that Japan will take part..... to read more
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While PRC calls it their ancient rights, the rest will call the activities done within the region their legal rights based on UNCLOS.
 
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