Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

plawolf said:

I actually think foreign intelligence agencies tend to have a very hard time trying to turn Chinese nationals.

Many Chinese officials might be corrupt by western standard, but the reality is that it's largely par for the course with working in China, and there is a clear moral line between skimming some money for yourself and betraying one's country that the vast majority of Chinese would never willingly cross. The vast majority of Chinese feel an extremely strong sense of loyalty to China that usually carries over even when they take on different nationalities. It is far more likely that Chinese nationals or people with Chinese heritage would help China's spy agencies rather than work against China.

Look at western intelligence agencies. They desperately want, need even, people with good knowledge and understanding about China who speak good Manderian for their China departments. Since few westerns know Chinese and fewer know anything about Chinese culture, the most expedient thing would be to hear Chinese. Obviously Chinese nationals would be out of the question on security grounds, but there are millions of second and third generation Chinese that they could pick from, yet there are precious few who work for them. Either western intelligence agencies think even these people are too much of a security risk to be worth employing, or they just do not want to work in a job whereby they feel like they might be harming China's interests. Either way, it goes to show that it's harder than you might think to find sell outs even amongst overseas Chinese. It would be even harder to turn Chinese nationals.

In addition, the Chinese put far more emphasis on political ideology when determining who to prompte and use. There is an element of re-education to drill in a sense of patriotism, but also an inherent selection bias that favors those loyal to the country. While this political requirement is often a burden and can holds talented people back, it does have it's benefits. The most obvious would be to make it very difficult for someone who might turn traitor to get into a position of power and authority in the first place.

Just look at the recently exposed case of a Chinese official who supplied secrets to western intelligence agencies. In the movies, it is Chinese spies sending in massuses and taking dirty pictures behind two way mirrors, but in reality, that is the only way western intelligence agencies were able to turn the guy. If an envelope full of Benjimans would have done the trick, you can bet they would not have gone to that much effort.

Anyways, this is all OT and we best get back to talking about the F60

It is no accident that

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jobjed said:

I hope that is true for adult 2nd and 3rd generation Chinese. As for adoloscents however, they won't blink an eye before betraying China, they have been absorbed into the foreign culture and no longer view themselves as Chinese. I'm an overseas Chinese in Australia and I have basically lost hope in the next generation of ABCs in regards to patriotism.

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Schumacher said:

I think it's ok for Chinese who have become citizens of other countries to be patriotic to them.
What is the most pathetic of life-form is those who somehow feel they need to disapprove of everything China and own culture in a desperate bid to win acceptance from their new masters.

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jobjed said:

I hope that is true for adult 2nd and 3rd generation Chinese. As for adoloscents however, they won't blink an eye before betraying China, they have been absorbed into the foreign culture and no longer view themselves as Chinese. I'm an overseas Chinese in Australia and I have basically lost hope in the next generation of ABCs in regards to patriotism.

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Equation said:

Adolescents are adolescents, full of pimples and too much Red Bull with clumsy judgmental decision making to become any use as a real intelligent agents. As a result no threat to security to anybody, but themselves.

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jobjed said:

I hope that is true for adult 2nd and 3rd generation Chinese. As for adoloscents however, they won't blink an eye before betraying China, they have been absorbed into the foreign culture and no longer view themselves as Chinese. I'm an overseas Chinese in Australia and I have basically lost hope in the next generation of ABCs in regards to patriotism.

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plawolf said:

Most people who has been a teenager the world over knows how hard the social jungle of high school could be. High school is a bad place to stand out from the crowd and appear different and kids of all nationalities and backgrounds do some pretty stupid stuff to try and fit in.

That tend to pass as people mature and find out who they are, and all too often you would find that overseas Chinese tend to be more patriotic towards China than born and bred mainlanders.

Maybe it's a need to re-connect with one's roots, maybe it's realization that for all the progress made, racism is still rife in western society, especially racism towards Chinese, which actually seem to be gaining ground and popularity and that no matter what you do or who you are, some people will never get past the color of your skin.

If anyone is accused of anti-Semitism, they can look forward to instantly being treated as a social leper by almost everyone in any western country, yet anti-Chinese racist remarks are so common and prevalent, often the people making them don't realize what they are saying is racist or offensive. A case in point is this picture that popped up on my facebook newsfeed just before I posted this.

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Would anyone think that the sentiment would be remotely appropriate if it was made about black players all looking the same? Yes yes, I know the joke is supposed to be because it's the black players making the remarks, but it is still racists and I am not laughing. Bet the bright spark that came up with this didn't think to do it for black players saying white people all looked the same when they played for a European or American club.

Anyways, my point is that while anti-semitism is an absolute no-no, anti-Chinese racist remarks sometimes are so mainstream they almost go unnoticed by even those making it, yet, when you examine the crux of the racist sentiment, present day anti-China sentiment is uncannily similar to anti-semitism before the end of WWII.

I realize I have gone off on a massive tangent and what was supposed to have been a very brief aside has spiraled, so I apologies. Hopefully we will get some more info or pictures about the F60 so we can have something to help us keep on track.

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