Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

paintgun

Senior Member
that's a fan conjuration

the real thing is still in research phase and design feasibilities studies
SAC stole their lightning with the same design niche, if there is one design they will be compared to, it will be the F-60

August or September, either will be great time for unveiling
 

vesicles

Major
I wonder why everyone talks about the new Shenyang plane as an export... PLA is HUGE. No export market can compete with PLA in terms budget and appetite. Wouldn't it be better to sell it to the PLA? So this new plane along with J-20 could be more like an equivalent of F22/F35 combo?
 

Engineer

Major
LOL! The KF-X is a total wet dream, any talk of export potential of this aircraft is a complete waste of time. Korea doesn't have the financial capabilities, technological capabilities, or reputation to ensure the project's success. The latest reincarnation of the project bringing in stealth technologies is nothing more than an egotistic response to the debut of the J-20; a result of the country looking down on China thus thinking 5-th generation fighter would be very simple to pull off.
 

Engineer

Major
I wonder why everyone talks about the new Shenyang plane as an export... PLA is HUGE. No export market can compete with PLA in terms budget and appetite. Wouldn't it be better to sell it to the PLA? So this new plane along with J-20 could be more like an equivalent of F22/F35 combo?
What you've said is completely right; the export potential of F-60 is next to nil and Shenyang most likely wants PLAAF to place an order. However, the reality is that PLAAF is not a sponsor of the project thus have no interest in the plane, just as in the case of JF-17. Various big shrimps have also stated PLAAF will not buy the plane.

Other factors stacked against the plane include:
  • The requirement of additional logistic infrastructure for RD-93/WS-13 engines.
  • The aircraft as it stands is very similar to Mig-29 hinting it will have short leg, but PLAAF desires aircraft with long range. Ordering F-60 would be like buying Mig-29 when PLAAF already has Su-27.
  • Avionics take up a large percentage of cost of a fighter aircraft. Should PLAAF desire a high/low stealth combination, it could go with J-20/J-20 combo with some J-20 having less capable avionics. There is no need to have a completely different airframe and engines.
 

Quickie

Major
The PLAN will surely be interested in the Shenyang new gen fighter if it's proven to be capable of carrier operation.
 

drunkmunky

Junior Member
I wonder why everyone talks about the new Shenyang plane as an export... PLA is HUGE. No export market can compete with PLA in terms budget and appetite. Wouldn't it be better to sell it to the PLA? So this new plane along with J-20 could be more like an equivalent of F22/F35 combo?
You mean the PLAAF. The German, US, Russian Export markets sell more military hardware than China, and that in turn assists in technological and military advancement as well as operational overrun.

If you have the Chinese government fuel the military in the traditional socialist methodology, we'd end up being the U.S.S.R. and going for broke.

I think the most effective means for China to compete is not to produce an export variant that sells to countries like Turkey, or Africa etc. I think they need to create direct alternatives to european nations. This would be most effective if they begin more avionic partnerships such as with sukhoi with commercial jet development.

China's gotta use it's manufacturing capabilities to generate and divert the military industry to it's shores. If it continues to stand alone, I am concerned about xenophobia as well as the generation of fear across south east asia.
 
Last edited:

paintgun

Senior Member
I wonder why everyone talks about the new Shenyang plane as an export... PLA is HUGE. No export market can compete with PLA in terms budget and appetite. Wouldn't it be better to sell it to the PLA? So this new plane along with J-20 could be more like an equivalent of F22/F35 combo?
because pupu and the insiders have stated that this is an export oriented plane, also to be used for the carrier

that's where this started

LOL! The KF-X is a total wet dream, any talk of export potential of this aircraft is a complete waste of time. Korea doesn't have the financial capabilities, technological capabilities, or reputation to ensure the project's success. The latest reincarnation of the project bringing in stealth technologies is nothing more than an egotistic response to the debut of the J-20; a result of the country looking down on China thus thinking 5-th generation fighter would be very simple to pull off.
a wet dream that has bagged a customer, if you want to call it so

they are not trying to build a fifth gen fighter, they stated it clear that it will be inferior to the F-35 and better than the F-16

i dont understand the connection to the J-20, the KF-X program exists back to since the 2004 IIRC
and looking down on China what? where did that come from :confused:
granted their challenge is great and they can go as far only the US allowed, your underestimation is very severe

but we are here to talk about the F-60 aren't we? not bashing the Koreans
 
The PLAN will surely be interested in the Shenyang new gen fighter if it's proven to be capable of carrier operation.
I think they might quickie, this thing looks somewhat more conventional, and while I believe the J-15 will be a fabulous carrier aircraft, the F-=60 appears to be very practical for carrier ops, and like the J-20 uniquely Sino-Centric, I think there is a desire to be a little more independant in bringing new designs to the table.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Shenyang's F-60 could not go this way, as it is a finished product and China is not keen to sharing high tech to anyone soon
I probably wouldn't call it a finished product.


LOL! The KF-X is a total wet dream, any talk of export potential of this aircraft is a complete waste of time. Korea doesn't have the financial capabilities, technological capabilities, or reputation to ensure the project's success. The latest reincarnation of the project bringing in stealth technologies is nothing more than an egotistic response to the debut of the J-20; a result of the country looking down on China thus thinking 5-th generation fighter would be very simple to pull off.
Indonesia has already agreed to fund 20% of the cost.

IMO the issue is not with funding or technology. By South Korea's own estimates, they only posess ~60% of the necessary technology. Since the goal of the project has been upgraded to stealth capabilities, it's likely that SK will need to import or license a greater % of technology from abroad. South Korea is not under arms embargo and have access to US, EU, and Russian technologies.

What IS an issue of concern is if this project turns into another Mitsubishi F-2. If SK had to import the technology and pay high cost for the licensing, what would be the per unit cost of the aircraft, when R&D & licensing costs are added? Japan paid dearly for the imported technology and the F-2 ended up costing over $120 million each.
 
Last edited:
Top