Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

b787 said:

It is obvious you do not get what is specific fuel consumption, a Al-31 will use close to 25000 kg an hour, in full afterburner. your are so arrogant and which such lack of humility to admit afterburner is only used seconds in regular flight, why because the Al-31F has a SFC of 1.9 at full afterburner.
Your J-10 will need 22500 kg of fuel per hour at full afterburner, that is around 375 kg a minute! your J-10 will gulp in 3 minutes more than 1000kg of fuel.

Your reasoning is so poor that you think your J-10 will accelerate from 600km/h to 2400km/h in one second, the J-10 will take minutes to do that, meaning that by the time your aircraft has gulp all its fuel and has reduced its range.


MiG-31 has for such 20000kg of fuel so its afterburners allow 20 minutes at Mach 2.35, but your J-10 with 3000kg will fly 2-3 minutes and that is it, your hornet already fired its SAM at shorter distance haha

RD-93 is not different and it flies with 2 engines So J-31 can not supercruise, J-20 can not supercruise either but by being large can carry more fuel like MiG-31, So China gives priority to the J-20, only fanboys like you say it s because its canards

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Clearly, you're too drunk to read. I always stated that J-10 only needs a burst to reach high speed before it launches and can ease off the throttle. I never said it needs to sustain those speeds for long or for the duration of the fight. I don't know if you're drunk or you have an English problem so you don't understand but it's not my issue.

How long does J-10 need to accelerate to what speed? Several minutes to get past mach 2? So it cannot do it on internal fuel? Is that your point? Do you have sources for the rate of acceleration? Also, it doesn't have to be at max speed; it can fire them at any speed, as fast as the pilot can comfortably get the aircraft with its fuel level. And then, that's not to mention that J-10's service ceiling is almost 10,000 ft higher than the Superbug's, so it has look down, shoot down advantage as well as much greater maneuverability (delta-canard plus lower wing-loading). Yup, I maintain my case; J-10 is the perfect defensive fighter. And you need to look up and understand what a light fighter is, what its roles are, and why every country with an affluent air force (China, USA, Russia) invests in them. The entire argument with you has come down to the basic concept of a light fighter. Until you educate yourself on what it is/what it's for, you're not going to learn anything.

I do not understand at all why you bring up MiG-31. It hurts your argument that range is so important! MiG-31 has great range and payload but Russia dropped it in favor of MiG-29, which has less range, less payload, less speed, less altitude but more other characteristics (especially maneuverability) that you're too ignorant to consider. J-10 has more advantages over the Superbug than MiG-29 had over the MiG-31. J-10 has equal weapons payload, greater speed, greater altitude, greater maneuverability than the Superbug; it has worse range. And because of this, you think range is the all-determining factor? If what you said made any sense at all, there would be no fighter jets; just supersonic bombers lobbing missiles at each other.

I never said China chose J-20 because of its canards; that would be just as stupid as you saying they picked J-20 for its size because they can put canards on any other design just like they can upsize J-31 for AL-31X/WS-10X if they wanted to. I said China chose J-20 over J-31 for the whole performance package (flight performance, stealth, range, payload, etc...), canards included (meaning canards or no canards wasn't the point of contention, they liked the performance). This is all basically common sense so I don't know if you're drunk or your English is terrible making it too difficult for you to read and understand.

PS. I know you're used to it, but it's not kosher to continuously embarrass yourself with statements like F-18E firing SAMs. Do you know what a SAM stands for? LOL

And now, I await your answer where you disregard 90% of my post and nitpick 1 thing, taking it onto a tangent and/or you just repeat the stupid nonsense you've been saying the whole time yet again LOL

b787 said:

The point is to see why J-31 has low priority, the Sr-71 carried close to 50 tonnes of fuel, this allowed it to fly a Mach 3.3 for very long time, J-10 carries much much less in internal fuel only, and so is J-31, since J-31 has not supercruising engines, then its ability to fight a F-22 is none, at BVR the Raptor will be the winner and at close combat too F-22 has TVC nozzles, J-20 in the other hand has a larger fuselage with more volume than the F-22, its engines can not supercruise at this moment, but can carry more fuel, this means longer patrol times and longer dashes at supersonic speeds than J-31, so for practical matters the J-20 makes more sense, but J-31 is the aircraft that has better stealth shaping, J-20 has inferior stealth shaping than J-31 but is a larger aircraft and this is a good plus

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Vodka in your head again. For the 3rd time (it's no longer for you; it's for other people learning because in general, if a person doesn't learn after being taught 3 times, it's a lost cause) If J-31 had better stealth shaping, but was just too small, they'd just upsize it for use with AL-31/WS-10 like the USN upsized the Hornet to the Super Hornet. J-20 was designed with its shaping from day one to be stealthy and the final product was innately superior to J-31 due to the whole combination, not any 1 transferable factor like size. That's why it was selected.

manqiangrexue said:

Clearly, you're too drunk to read. I always stated that J-10 only needs a burst to reach high speed before it launches and can ease off the throttle. I never said it needs to sustain those speeds for long or for the duration of the fight. I don't know if you're drunk or you have an English problem so you don't understand but it's not my issue.

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you are avoiding your first statement, i said the J-10 carries less BVR AAM than the SuperHornet.I said the J-31 makes more sense for China than J-10 or Su-27 clones because the Superhornet is a heavy fighter, the J-10 in order to fight the F-18E has to carry external fuel tanks, this makes the J-10 to carry less BVR AAM.

You said since J-10 uses a VG intake can fly higher and fire its BVR AAM at higher speeds, i told you F-18E and J-10 are not really flying at supersonic speeds, to do it a few minutes they need external fuel tanks, but the F-18 carries more BVR AAM, so the J-10 is kind of obsolete, J-31 makes more sense because it will approach closer to the F-18E and thus it is a better light weight fighter, but none of these 3 aircraft supercruise so hardly they will fly more than 1-2 minutes at supersonic speeds, and that is seldom.


Most combat is at transonic speeds, Rafale for such reason is a better dogfigher, same Eurofighter, because they can fly supersonic with AAM and have limited supercruise.

But you insist J-10 can fly Mach 2.2, the reality is supersonic speeds are restricted to aircraft like MiG-31 or SR-71. most fighters seldom fly at their top speed, the only modern fighters that are really supersonic are F-22, MiG-31 and PAKFA, and to lesser extend eurofighter and Su-35

b787 said:

you are avoiding your first statement, i said the J-10 carries less BVR AAM than the SuperHornet.I said the J-31 makes more sense for China than J-10 or Su-27 clones because the Superhornet is a heavy fighter, the J-10 in order to fight the F-18E has to carry external fuel tanks, this makes the J-10 to carry less BVR AAM.

You said since J-10 uses a VG intake can fly higher and fire its BVR AAM at higher speeds, i told you F-18E and J-10 are not really flying at supersonic speeds, to do it a few minutes they need external fuel tanks, but the F-18 carries more BVR AAM, so the J-10 is kind of obsolete, J-31 makes more sense because it will approach closer to the F-18E and thus it is a better light weight fighter, but none of these 3 aircraft supercruise so hardly they will fly more than 1-2 minutes at supersonic speeds, and that is seldom.


Most combat is at transonic speeds, Rafale for such reason is a better dogfigher, same Eurofighter, because they can fly supersonic with AAM and have limited supercruise.

But you insist J-10 can fly Mach 2.2, the reality is supersonic speeds are restricted to aircraft like MiG-31 or SR-71. most fighters seldom fly at their top speed, the only modern fighters that are really supersonic are F-22, MiG-31 and PAKFA, and to lesser extend eurofighter and Su-35

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Nope, I always stood by my first statement that J-10 can carry equal or more BVR ammunition as Super Hornet because it needs no external fuel tanks to fight. It only fights in battles that are in its defensive areas so it doesn't need extra fuel/range to reach out (but if it does go out a bit further, it may add 1). On the other hand, Hornet needs to take off from a carrier far out at sea to avoid getting the carrier itself sunk by land-based ASBM so actually, Hornet absolutely needs to dedicate some of its hardpoints to drop tank(s) so it can reach its target (which, I presume, is some area on land guarded by J-10). So both have 11 hardpoints, but Hornet definitely needs to dedicate some to fuel tanks. J-10 may or may not use 1 so it will have at least as many BVR missiles as Hornet; in all likelihood, it will have more because it may not need any tanks at all if it's guarding a zone that doesn't require much travel. That's what the J-10 is for and that's hot it should be used.

If it needs to meet the Superbug out in the middle of a battlefield let's say equidistant from each other, then J-10 would need multiple furl tanks and maybe carry only 2-4 missiles. That would be unacceptable and in that case, SinoFlanker should be used instead.

I brought up speed because you brought up speed, saying Su-35 was faster than F-35, F18E so I threw it in there. I know J-10 probably can't reach its max speed of mach 2.2 at all when decked out with weapons, but then again, neither can the Hornet and Hornet's max speed is lower at mach 1.8. All things equal, J-10 should still launch at a slightly higher speed. But J-10 does fly a heck of a lot higher and moves a lot better. But in either case, I was talking about a sudden speed boost to launch missiles (which would give it a speed advantage, and a height advantage, and possibly translate into longer BVR engagement range, depending on the missile's capabilities as well), not maintained supersonic flight for long periods. Supercruise is irrelevant to this tactic.

Because of this, I maintain that J-10/SinoFlanker combo is great for the low supplement for J-20. There is no pressing need for J-31.

Guys ... one more post in this regard from anyone and I close this thread until the maiden flight ... or even better You get a vacation until after Christmas !!

Was this clear enough ????

Apparently FC-31 v2 has finally taken its first flight today.

Anything to foreign countries financing some of the J-31 development?

some more

Congratulations !!!!