Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

Aeronaut

New Member
Actually, there are a great many advantages when an aircraft is able to supercruise, a range increase is not one of them, any aircraft will achieve optimal range at a speed "well below" supersonic, and drag is "always" increased, as speed is increased. Supercruise is a big deal because if you are able to "go supersonic" on "dry" thrust alone, and the bad boys have to get into afterburner to either run or chase you, they will be on bingo fuel in a very short time, and you my friend will be "gone"! and that my friend is what supercruise is all about, no magic drag reductions over mach one, just enough dry thrust to push you close to VMAX, allowing you engage or disengage at your discretion, so no the J-31 does not need to supercruise, and the F-35 doesn't need supercruise, but it sure is nice when you're: late to the party!:p:p

Having said this if the Chinese industry can produce the 100kn engine they have been talking about (WS-17?) the FC-31 may as well be able to supercruise.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The engine does not relate to stealth, unless you are referring to nozzles.
I believe that he was referring to the IR characteristics of the engine. This is not just related to the exhaust, but it plays a major part in it. IMHO, both the J-20 and the J-31 (and for that matter, the PAKFA too) have quite a bot of progress to make in this area between their prototype phases and production.

The main advantage of super-cruise is in operational range. Cruising in supersonic speed dramatically decreases drag, and allowing much better fuel efficiency.
Drag at supersonic speed is the same whether you have reached that speed through super cruise or using an after burner. So the drag issue is not really relevant to super cruise.

Airplanes which cannot do super-cruise require after-burners to reach supersonic speeds, which burns off fuel very quickly, and they cannot maintain that speed with normal engine power.
This is exactly right. This is the main advantage of super cruise. You get to supersonic speeds without having to take the super-gulp using the afterburner.

This allows you to reach a much more distant area of operation faster and with more fuel remaining for actual combat/patrol. A normal aircraft's engine would require refueling missions in order to get to an AO that a super cruise aircraft can reach without it, and then loiter longer there. That fuel efficiency, and the speed it allows them to go to the AO are huge advantages.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Interesting comparison ....
 

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A Bar Brother

Junior Member
The engine does not relate to stealth, unless you are referring to nozzles.

The engine is crucial for stealth, along with the nozzles.

For one, you need augmentors in the engine, these are radar blockers placed inside the exhaust to block EM waves.

This is from an article from Aviation week and I don't have a link to it.
Pratt points out that the F119 and F135 are the only production engines with stealthy augmentors. Their design eliminates conventional spray bars and flame holders and integrates multi-zone reheat fuel injection into curved vanes that block the line-of-sight to the turbine.

These augmentors are clearly visible if you look inside the exhaust of the engine. And this cannot be "installed" on existing engines, you are going to have to design one from scratch. You can look one up for the F-22.

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Then you are going to need the latest IR reduction techniques, not including the widely known ceramic coating on the nozzles. Not to mention any number of unknown techniques being used today. IR reduction is another aspect that has to be designed into the engine.

As for the nozzle design in particular, it only affects RCS at certain altitudes and angles which can be taken care of with active cancellation techniques. I am not particularly bothered by the shape of the nozzles, but I am very interested in the path the FC-31 will take with regards to the engine. With the RD-93, the FC-31 is as stealthy as a J-10B.

Engine thrust does matter in delivering the kind of weight-to-thrust ratio to allow super-cruise, which is considered one of the key 5th-gen specifications.

If you ditch super-cruise, but retain many of the other 5th-gen aspects, like stealth (at least frontal and side), AESA, other advanced sensors, battle-field network and information share capabilities etc, then you can still make a very attractive and capable aircraft by-passing the bottle neck in the engine department.

The main advantage of super-cruise is in operational range. Cruising in supersonic speed dramatically decreases drag, and allowing much better fuel efficiency. Airplanes which cannot do super-cruise require after-burners to reach supersonic speeds, which burns off fuel very quickly, and they cannot maintain that speed with normal engine power.

These are all existing qualities of current European 4th generation jets like the Rafale, EF and Gripen C/D/E.

Rafale and EF are known to supercruise between mach 1.2 to mach 1.5, both with and without tanks. Both aircraft have high thrust engines, and the avionics you mentioned.

But for nations like Pakistan, and if the FC-31 are mainly to be used in air defence roles, then operational range isn't the highest of priorities. For a cheaper price and quicker delivery date (no new engines to hold things up), you still get most of the other more important 5th-gen fighter characteristics. So it may very well be a worthwhile trade-off.

Offense, defense, you are going to need range for everything. And without 5th gen engine, which is as important as a 5th gen airframe, you are not going to get anywhere far with the FC-31.

And you can't trade off anything on a 5th gen jet. There is no such thing as taking half measures when you talk about 5th gen. That's why the Americans are skeptical about anybody else getting a 5th gen jet flying before the F-35. And unlike previous reports, the F-35 is also an all-aspect stealth aircraft. No half measures there.
 
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