Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

FriedRiceNSpice said:

Why in Shijiazhuang? Literally in middle of nowhere. Why not just focus on expanding rail and logistics infrastructure in BJ/TJ area or Taiyuan directly (as the only areas SJZ seems to connect are the Bohai metro with Taiyuan - basically SJZs sole reason for existence).

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just got really luck I guess. The above image looks like a pretty good explanation.

Although if you look at BRI projects, Xian and Zhengzhou seem to be large hubs

anyways, Cambodia is getting a canal from China to Gulf of Thailand


great peace here. Now that China has basically completely transformed infrastructure around Laos, time to extend that to Cambodia

Just saw this on the recent farming movement

looks like the cancellations in Europe, Australia & American contract will be replaced by imports from Russia, South America and Kazakhstan. All done hopefully through cips and rmb.

so reduction in reliance from western farming and lng and metals is just by developing excessive capacity across the world. And once you get that, you have a situation where buyers are in control

Which is why they need to sign the deal with Russia for Power of Siberia 2. So they can dump Western LNG. Especially the Australian one.
Why pay twice the price for gas and give the money and leverage to hostile countries.

gelgoog said:

Which is why they need to sign the deal with Russia for Power of Siberia 2. So they can dump Western LNG. Especially the Australian one.
Why pay twice the price for gas and give the money and leverage to hostile countries.

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PS2 is going to be a huge commitment. Obviously there are some pricing sticking points and might be for how long Russia demands China to be contractually obligated to buy X gas annually.

China holds the vast majority, if not all, the cards in this negotiation

Overbom said:

China holds the vast majority, if not all, the cards in this negotiation

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So you would think. Russia can just turn the tap off and keep the gas in the ground. That's what some people don't get really.
Russia is a powerhouse in terms of mineral resources. They are one of the most self-reliant economies in the world. They don't depend on natural gas and oil exports.

Then China can continue buying LNG for twice the price. Because that's what you get due to energy losses from liquefaction and ship transport. Or they can get the gas from Turkmenistan with gas pipelines which have twice the distance to the wells. Which do you think will be cheaper?

gelgoog said:

So you would think. Russia can just turn the tap off and keep the gas in the ground. That's what some people don't get really.

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They can do whatever they want. In any case, Putin seemed pretty desperate about signing PS2 when he met with Xi last year.

However, nothing happened. If the Russians don't yield they can keep their depreciating asset till the end of times, upon which its value will reach relative zero.

gelgoog said:

Russia is a powerhouse in terms of mineral resources. They are one of the most self-reliant economies in the world. They don't depend on natural gas and oil exports

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Ok. If they don't care, then what's up with Putin and his PS2 signing proclamations...

gelgoog said:

Or getting it from Turkmenistan from gas pipelines with twice the distance to the wells. Which do you think will be cheaper?

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I trust the Chinese negotiators have taken everything into account. If they still keep holding their ground it means the current situation is profitable for them.

Who will blink first, China or Russia? My money is on Russia

The Russians spent a lot of money developing the gas fields in the Yamal. So of course they want to extract some profit from them. The center of Russia also lacks gas infrastructure and a connection to the national gas grid. The cities there are some of the most heavily polluted in Russia because they burn Kuzbass coal to generate power. This is what energy is available in the area. There is a Russian government directive to connect the whole country in a single unified gas grid. So Gazprom is in a pickle. As the owner of Gazprom the Russian government wants it to succeed. But to think it is a fatal issue for the Russian government or economy is an exaggeration.

In the short and mid term Russia needs imports from China of consumer electronics and machinery, to balance trade the Russian government wants to export mineral resources which they have plenty of and China lacks. It is as simple as that.

With regards to China my assumption is that they want to increase gasification of Northern China more before pushing through Power of Siberia 2. Last time the Chinese government tried to push through use of natural gas in Northern China quickly there was a lot of friction. It will take time to gasify the area. And in the meantime they have supplies from Power of Siberia. Which still isn't at full capacity. Will only be in like two years.

China had longstanding commitments with Turkmenistan so of course they put those first. Russia back when these contracts were originally though of was still committed to selling gas to meet European demand as their existing customer first. China also tried to offset Western LNG by signing a long term deal with Qatar. But regardless of where they get the LNG, it will always cost twice the price, simply because it is LNG. And it has to be carried by boat which can be intercepted by the US Navy.

You seem to think natural gas is a depreciating asset. I can pretty much bet we will all be dead and buried and people will still be burning natural gas.

Alright let’s cut out this debate about ps2 since this is not the right thread for it

At least china should support Pakistan to finish this project. The pipe can also go to china via cpec and will make Iran and Pakistan ally.

more on this topic
China relying on itself and brazil is replacing need for us imports for corn


Interesting how developing south American infrastructure is helping cost of importing from Brazil


here talks about how China/Brazil agriculture cooperation is at an all time high. land in Brazil is so fertile. But maybe with some Chinese help, yield can get even better


Another good segment of China moving to get grain and energy from BRICS+ and BRICS+ countries being huge producers of food and energy


Russia really wants this. And it hurts US, Canada and Australia the most


The Westerners are fuming. But let's be real here. In order to crush Western farming industry, sanction is not the way to go. creating more production at lower cost is the way to go. That's where China comes in. Help them build the infrastructure and provide technology to increase their yield.