Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)
- Thread starter A Bar Brother
- Start date
FGFA is just the Indian name for the project that makes the PakFA into an Indian "tailor made" fighter. It is not an Indian project like you are suggesting it is. Almost 100% of the real work is done by Russians in Russia. The rest is just some customized demands the Indians would like such as twin cockpit. They are not redesigning or reverse engineering from the ground up to get the FGFA. It is a thoroughly Russian designed and built fighter. In any case it did seem like the partnership was over for a while.
Admittedly yes. It was that one multiple ID fellow who loved to start and stoke the flames. Also including the sentiments from other forums in my comment. Aimed at those who also read those other forums and have a quiet laugh to themselves at seeing this piece of news. The excuses that will come from those places will be worthy of some attention ... mostly for entertainment.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
Well, well ... can't say that we didn't see that coming from a mile. FGFA, Fifth Gen India or whatever the heck else it's dressed up as, was doomed from the moment India started cozying up to America. And Russia is well within its rights to safeguard it's stealth aircraft. I mean isn't that the Americans have done in the past with the australians (F-18s), and then with the brits with the F-35s. Aircraft is a hardware platform which is built that way, and there is only so much one can do, before it becomes obviously clear that "they" don't want their tech, ending up open book to any customer, ally or not. So what makes this any different for Russia?
Heck the french did it, with Rafales and the so-called "mother of all deals". In the end, french weren't stupid enough to take full liability of their aircraft being manufactured in India. So the point is, differences are bound to take place. And it takes a heck of a lot of give and take, as each country wants the best deal out a procurement.
Also, with regards to Su-57s being stealthy or non-stealthy. Or whether it's a junk aircraft or super awesome. I think it is a well known understanding among intelligent members, that capabilities of an aircraft can and would only be determined in actual combat, against an adversary equally or near equally powerful as one. So it is somewhat amusing when claims and counter claims are made, with very convincing theories. However, that's what they really are, just theories. The unlikely scenario where a flight of Su-57s goes head to head against that of F-22s. Whatever the outcome, one can be sure, the actual truth would probably never see the light of day.
So let's be a bit more practical, shall we?!
Heck the french did it, with Rafales and the so-called "mother of all deals". In the end, french weren't stupid enough to take full liability of their aircraft being manufactured in India. So the point is, differences are bound to take place. And it takes a heck of a lot of give and take, as each country wants the best deal out a procurement.
Also, with regards to Su-57s being stealthy or non-stealthy. Or whether it's a junk aircraft or super awesome. I think it is a well known understanding among intelligent members, that capabilities of an aircraft can and would only be determined in actual combat, against an adversary equally or near equally powerful as one. So it is somewhat amusing when claims and counter claims are made, with very convincing theories. However, that's what they really are, just theories. The unlikely scenario where a flight of Su-57s goes head to head against that of F-22s. Whatever the outcome, one can be sure, the actual truth would probably never see the light of day.
So let's be a bit more practical, shall we?!
timepass
Brigadier
India withdraws from FGFA project, leaving Russia to go it alone...
India withdraws from FGFA project, leaving Russia to go it alone . . .
[Key Points]
> India has pulled out of its 11-year collaborative programme with Russia to build a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft
> The decision has ramifications for both the IAF and the Russian aerospace industry
(By Rahul Bedi, New Delhi and Reuben F Johnson, Kuala Lumpur - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly)
India withdraws from FGFA project, leaving Russia to go it alone . . .
[Key Points]
> India has pulled out of its 11-year collaborative programme with Russia to build a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft
> The decision has ramifications for both the IAF and the Russian aerospace industry
(By Rahul Bedi, New Delhi and Reuben F Johnson, Kuala Lumpur - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly)
Without Indian demand, there won't be FGFA project, isn't it? I mean the Russians would not have had this project if it is not for the Indians. India is also the main investor to the project, Russia is like a design house.
My point to that article is that unlike the article said "Russia to go alone with FGFA", Russia will not continue with it if India stops.
Jura The idiot
General
Quite right. Russia's project has, is, and always will be the Su-57. FGFA was just a name given to the Indian custom version of the fighter which they are now officially not interested in acquiring or investing in. I think they are paving the way for F-35s eventually as an alternative. The big wigs know very well they cannot produce a decent AMCA in any time soon. May as well get the F-35 but that's gonna dent the wallet so severely, domestic projects will suffer or perish altogether because India is not going to resolve all its social and economic problems in 20 years time. The alternative to all this is to just stick with large numbers of Rafales and forgo the 5th gen thing entirely, only purchasing some Su-57s or some F-35s when these platforms are more prolific and needed. I don't think India really needs 5th gen to counter Pakistan since 5th gen is also nowhere on Pakistan's horizons and there will be no need to spend those sums for something India doesn't have either. No one honestly thinks India is a military match for China today. You have to have your head so deep in the soil to believe that. So it's quite safe to say that India will not have any 5th gen fighters until at least 2025 or further.
Should also add that India is quite a capable nuclear power and can easily reach any point in China so having 5th gen fighters is really just a bonus in conventional warfare which both sides want to avoid behind all the talk (mostly from Indian media). So it's entirely possible for them to just save the money and develop domestic industries when it is a wealthier and more developed nation.
Did Russia sort of rip India off with this whole project? Indian money was injected into it and as far as we know, the Indians were barely even allowed to examine the fighter until much later in the project. They were never going to let the Indians have any technology. Seems like a con job.