Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)


Skywatcher

Senior Member
Re: Indian Military News II

The failure of Salyut is not a reflection on the PAKFA program or upon Russia's engine capabilities. Would you agree that if Boeing messed up their design, that's like saying Airbus messed up too? While IAF buys from Saturn and UMPO, China relies on Salyut. So whatever failures the Chinese have seen through their deals with Salyut, does not mean the same will happen to India with Saturn.

I do agree that Russian engines are not that great, but the flight safety record of the MKI speaks for itself. There are over 200 in service and 6 have crashed. There have been 5 F-22 crashes. Both the MKI and F-22 are supermaneuverable. Both are operational with similar numbers. Both lost a prototype each. I'm sure there are glitches in any technology, and that holds true for the Americans and Europeans too.

Out of all the crashes, both MKI and F-22 have one crash each related to the engine. Isn't that proof enough? MKIs have been flying for a few years longer than the F-22s too.

Btw, the first paragraph that you quoted was indeed speculation, as I myself pointed it out. But the second is fact.
Ok, so it's absolutely baseless and utterly ludicrous speculation then. Gotcha.
 

Skywatcher

Senior Member
Re: Indian Military News II

Anyway, the PAKFA's current state is not the production version, so yeah, in case the J-20's current prototypes are production versions, then the Chinese are much closer to operationalizing it. PAKFA is yet to undergo the stage 2 program. They are yet to build a second static model, and the second set of prototypes. PAKFA is not even half way through while FGFA has barely even begun.


Thanks.
So five flying prototypes so far, with an IOC of around 2016-2017, but it's not the "production version" How does that timeline work then?
 

tphuang

Brigadier
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Indian Military News II

So five flying prototypes so far, with an IOC of around 2016-2017, but it's not the "production version" How does that timeline work then?
I have read the so called stage 2, but as you said, if they are planning to have it join service by end of 2016 and have 55 by 2020, that's not going to be a huge change. They have gone through thousands of hours of wind tunnel testing by this point. At best, the level of changes you will see is like what J-20 went through in 2011, but that kind of changes would probably require renewed flight tests.

Of course, there is the possibility that the IAF version will look vastly different (that you go from a stealthy design to a fully stealth design), but we have not seen any suggestion of that.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: Indian Military News II

That's because everybody's hung up on the American definition of stealth.
Yes, people like to buy stuff that has real science and engineering behind it, they also kinda like it when stuff works, guess they're just not "visionaries", and they don't even believe in "space ghost", he had the real deal "cloaking device, long before the Klingons, no really, and I'm not even lying, really I watched it on Saturday morning! Hey wheres my fancy new "silver hat???"....:p:p
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Re: Indian Military News II

So five flying prototypes so far, with an IOC of around 2016-2017, but it's not the "production version" How does that timeline work then?
PAKFA development is very different from American or even the Chinese development. There are basically three different aircraft, two for the Russians and one for India. Probably another one that may come up later for export.

Out of the two for the Russians, one is the PAKFA that you see today, it will achieve IOC in 2017. 60 aircraft are to be made, maybe more later after 2020. The second one is set to fly sometime next year or the year after that, that is the definitive version which will see hundreds ordered.

That's why you see two different prototype development trees. The first one is the one you already see flying. The second set will come up after T-50-6 and later. That's why T-60-6-1 and T-60-6-2 will see a static model and a flying model.

FGFA will be based on the second phase or Stage-2 of the program. And it will also have its own prototype and serial production version models.

The F-22 had 8 prototypes, the J-20 could also be operational with 6 to 8 prototypes, while PAKFA/FGFA could have as many as 15 in total. As of today, there are a total of 6 prototypes (one static) for PAKFA. This will be followed by another 5 or 6 prototypes of the second stage, apart from 3 prototypes of FGFA.
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Re: Indian Military News II

I have read the so called stage 2, but as you said, if they are planning to have it join service by end of 2016 and have 55 by 2020, that's not going to be a huge change. They have gone through thousands of hours of wind tunnel testing by this point. At best, the level of changes you will see is like what J-20 went through in 2011, but that kind of changes would probably require renewed flight tests.

Of course, there is the possibility that the IAF version will look vastly different (that you go from a stealthy design to a fully stealth design), but we have not seen any suggestion of that.
Already explained in post 1618.
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Re: Indian Military News II

Yes, people like to buy stuff that has real science and engineering behind it, they also kinda like it when stuff works, guess they're just not "visionaries", and they don't even believe in "space ghost", he had the real deal "cloaking device, long before the Klingons, no really, and I'm not even lying, really I watched it on Saturday morning! Hey wheres my fancy new "silver hat???"....:p:p
There is a pretty big difference in how the Russians have always done things.

There are four major versions of the F-15 (counting the two seaters), but there are more than a dozen Flanker versions. Some of them practically new designs, like the S-33, Su-34 and Su-35.

The Americans and plenty of non-Americans are very aware of how stealth can be achieved in different ways. The Americans chose the cheaper method of shaping because that's how the industry developed. However other industries did not develop the same way, so instead of copying the American method and staying behind, the Russians and French are implementing newer methods of stealth sooner than the Americans can in order to stay ahead in those respective paths.

But then what do I know, I though SD was about class, not personal attacks.
 

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