Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I just don't see Russia being overly concerned about meeting the two seat requirement of FGFA, I doubt they will put a chink in development and prototyping, this is a much bigger engineering change than folks here seem to realize, and to be honest "master zool" is on to this. Adding that second crew member changes everything, and if you think its underpowered now, all that addition weight and wetted area would really be a boat anchor, its just not gonna happen?
 

b787

Captain
and if you think its underpowered now,
l7s1tXL.jpg


Engine weight - almost 1.4 thousand. Kg. thrust mode dry power without afterburner is 8800 kg (kilogram-force), and the afterburner rises to 15-ton quantities

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cdcdd0df1b1dd45d2b8117f0e84f413d.jpg


 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
I just don't see Russia being overly concerned about meeting the two seat requirement of FGFA, I doubt they will put a chink in development and prototyping, this is a much bigger engineering change than folks here seem to realize, and to be honest "master zool" is on to this. Adding that second crew member changes everything, and if you think its underpowered now, all that addition weight and wetted area would really be a boat anchor, its just not gonna happen?

Welcome to the club. PAKFA/FGFA (MTOW = 33.5 tonnes) is way lighter than the F-22 (MTOW = 38 tonnes) while having more engine power. I have already provided the link where Pogosyan said they want a two-seat for the export market.

And this two-seat program is not meant to conflict with the PAKFA Stage-1/Stage-2 or the FGFA single seat program. The IAF said the one-seat FGFA will be developed and inducted first and the two-seat to follow that.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Similar to my "advice" in the "China & Su-35 tread" I have that strange feeling this one too became too much of a contest of different opinions and esp. one side tries very hard to persuade the other ...

Honestly: I don't like this development ....
o_O

You can post Your arguments but for the facts or better to say results, let the future speak !
We all know that the Russian industry is right now in a difficult situation and similar the T50's future: With one prototype lost, a mayor redesign of critical structures necessary and as such resulting of the stage II prototypes it is currently far from certain when the T50 will enter service and even more in what numbers ... all statements given so far years before are IMO in limbo and have to be taken with a lot of salt and that goes alos for the twin-seater.

Deino
 
I found a popular article in Russian entitled "Five Secrets of T-50"
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you may just watch the video inside :) but if there's some interest (indicated by a Like or a Private Message for example), I could translate for you any of its five parts:
1. Stealth
2. Rotating Nozzles
3. Smart Hull-Coating
4. Cool Mind
5. Long Hands
but yeah, this is an article for laymen like me :) (I didn't even know there're six radars in T-50 ...)
 

b787

Captain
I found a popular article in Russian entitled "Five Secrets of T-50"
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you may just watch the video inside :) but if there's some interest (indicated by a Like or a Private Message for example), I could translate for you any of its five parts:
1. Stealth
2. Rotating Nozzles
3. Smart Hull-Coating
4. Cool Mind
5. Long Hands
but yeah, this is an article for laymen like me :) (I didn't even know there're six radars in T-50 ...)
same article different website
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similar video
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Similar to my "advice" in the "China & Su-35 tread" I have that strange feeling this one too became too much of a contest of different opinions and esp. one side tries very hard to persuade the other ...

Honestly: I don't like this development ....
o_O

You can post Your arguments but for the facts or better to say results, let the future speak !
We all know that the Russian industry is right now in a difficult situation and similar the T50's future: With one prototype lost, a mayor redesign of critical structures necessary and as such resulting of the stage II prototypes it is currently far from certain when the T50 will enter service and even more in what numbers ... all statements given so far years before are IMO in limbo and have to be taken with a lot of salt and that goes alos for the twin-seater.

Deino
So Deino, can you post any links relating to the T-50 structural issues, I ran upon some one day, and have been unable to track them down since?? as I understand it O1 is unairworthy, and 02? was flying with 01 tail????, anyway if you have some links I would love to understand in more depth what has transpired, just because I am fascinated by these structural issues?
 

aksha

Captain
Russia, India Complete Draft Project for Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft

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The regional director of international cooperation at the united Russian-Indian aircraft manufacturing company reported Saturday that Russia and India have completed the creation of the export version of the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft.

MOSCOW, January 10 (Sputnik) —
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and
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have completed the preliminary design for the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), the regional director of international cooperation at the united Russian-Indian aircraft manufacturing company said Saturday.
“As of now, we and our Indian colleagues have completed the creation of the export version of the [Sukhoi] PAK FA, known in India as FGFA. We already have documents and understanding of the scope of the next phase of design, the scale of future production,” Andrey Marshankin said in an interview with the Russian News Service radio.
Marshankin noted that while the Russian version of the fifth generation fighter jet is operated by a single pilot, the Indian Air Force prefers aircraft that are operated by two pilots.

“In difficult conditions of modern warfare it is extremely difficult to simultaneously maneuver [the aircraft] and attack the enemy. Currently, the Indian side suggests that the Indian version of the fifth generation fighter will be made for two pilots,” he said.

The Sukhoi PAK FA (T-50) is the Russian Air Force’s first stealth fighter, intended to succeed the Sukhoi Su-27, as well as the Mikoyan MiG-29 fighter jets. The aircraft conducted its first test flight in 2010 and deliveries are set to begin in 2016. The FGFA, developed jointly by Russia’s Sukhoi and India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, is a derivative from the PAK FA.

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a welcome news
so the fgfa will indeed be two seater version
@A Bar Brother,@Air Force Brat
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Russia, India Complete Draft Project for Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft

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a welcome news
so the fgfa will indeed be two seater version
@A Bar Brother,@Air Force Brat

So the rumors were true. FGFA will be a two-seater. That's good news.

It should follow the same plan of action as before. A single-seater and a two-seater to be developed in tandem, with the single-seater going hot first.
 

Brumby

Major
So the rumors were true. FGFA will be a two-seater. That's good news.

It should follow the same plan of action as before. A single-seater and a two-seater to be developed in tandem, with the single-seater going hot first.

The report says they have completed the preliminary design for the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). By preliminary, the wording would suggest to me that it is subject to a final design. I am not familiar with Indian/Russian development path and inter governmental legal framework and so I would appreciate if you can explain the significance of this report in light of the history of this program to-date :

The Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) was signed in Oct 2007. This basically allows bypassing MoD procurement rules. A General Contract was then signed in Dec 2008 which covers general principles of cooperation, such as work share, cost sharing and export sale arrangements. A Preliminary Contract was initiated in Dec 2010 and negotiations lasted until June 2013 and covers FGDFA basic configuration, systems and equipment selection. This is subject to the final R & D contract which essentially beds down actual design and development but to-date is yet to be inked.

Wouldn't the Preliminary contract negotiations that lasted 2 1/2 years be the basis and outcome of at least a preliminary design? How does this preliminary design fit into the scheme of things? It just seems on the surface to be another continuum towards an elusive final development contract.
 
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