Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


pmc

Junior Member
Registered Member
You're still lumping together a lot of stuffs and mixing up different things. Let's first separate your claims into two parts: aviation and energy. Otherwise, you're making this discussion unmanageable. In this post, we'll compare the energy production between the two countries using data from
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. The most recent data are from 2019.
I am very clear about Aviation Industry size /operations and Energy industry size/financials.
Just this one picture shows 6 SSJ inside factory. a. its big factory. i am sure there more in front.
and they are creating completely new SSJ-R.
IAEA or OPEC it is irrelevant as Russia is not going to share anything with them that remotely close to reality. this how market is manipulated but what cannot change is the size of National Welfare fund that is straight mathematical calculations. of excess funds deposited.

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weig2000

Senior Member
I am very clear about Aviation Industry size /operations and Energy industry size/financials.
Just this one picture shows 6 SSJ inside factory. a. its big factory. i am sure there more in front.
and they are creating completely new SSJ-R.
IAEA or OPEC it is irrelevant as Russia is not going to share anything with them that remotely close to reality. this how market is manipulated but what cannot change is the size of National Welfare fund that is straight mathematical calculations. of excess funds deposited.

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So you cannot provide electricity generation number because it's a Russia state secret? And you believe Russia's larger than China's?

If that's the case, you're being delusional. I have nothing more to say.
 

pmc

Junior Member
Registered Member
We are also not going to dive deep into the technology details, particularly when the technology levels are more or less similar. In that case, let's just say IL-76 and Y-20 are in the same class for example. Otherwise, this discussion is going nowhere.
how exactly they same technical level? same engine power and range. same global operations reliability. same AWACS modifications. same cold weather in Arctic flights feature.
Again, total production number over a longer period does not count. SSJ is in existence longer than ARJ-21. We only look at the most recent annual production.

ARJ-21 had 27 deliveries in 2020 and 17 deliveries in 2021, see the complete list
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. So based on your 30 deliveries of SSJ in 2021, SSJ is slightly ahead, but not much.
You cannot give the first 100 ARJ numbers?. and 17 and 30 are not exactly same.
Again, we're not talking about robust or stress or anything like that. We're also not talking about scale of operations of IL-76. Even China has 20-30 IL-76. We're talking about annual production rate. Just provide the evidence of IL-76 production rate. Or you don't really know.

I simply don't think Russia's current large transport production rate can match China's. And the gap will be increasing as China ramps up production of Y-20, YU-20 in the coming years.
you have any proof of Y-20 production rate?. i have confidence in IL76 production rate just because of the scale of use. and its modifications.
This is irrelevant.



Irrelevant.

And, China's current production rates of 4th and 5th generation fighter aircraft (J-10C, J-16/J-16D/J-15, J-20) are larger than Russia's corresponding rates. The reason is very simple: China has much larger defense spending and is in a rapidly expansion mode. The gap will increase.

Final notes: I'm not bashing Russia or anything like. Russia is doing fine. Just want to set the facts right.
Russia simply not built single engine fighters. just the choppers that Russia is creating they are twin engine with very high tech. much more complex than single engine fighter. and they do carry for 4 external fuel tanks. it is to provide loitering and target data.

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Power availability, indeed even generation and consumption, has little to no bearing on how "large" each aircraft industry is in production output.

Not sure why PMC brought that up as a point of evidence on Russia' aircraft industry being much deeper than China's.

Other talking points are entirely valid though. On commercial, Russia's is definitely larger despite having a smaller market for it. Military is difficult to tell due to how secretive info is and Russia having a much longer history of selling and supplying foreign nations. Either way, this argument is beyond pointless.
 

pmc

Junior Member
Registered Member
So you cannot provide electricity generation number because it's a Russia state secret? And you believe Russia's larger than China's?

If that's the case, you're being delusional. I have nothing more to say.
i have the Russia government fund data. That is directly created from energy sales. by next year. they are expecting to double electricity exports. you cannot double some thing overnight if there is already infrastructure built.
 

weig2000

Senior Member
i have the Russia government fund data. That is directly created from energy sales. by next year. they are expecting to double electricity exports. you cannot double some thing overnight if there is already infrastructure built.

This will be my last response to this thread of discussion.

You don't have relevant evidence to back up your electricity generation claim. Period. You've been too wrapped up in your fictions, and forgot the elephant in the room, the true giant, in terms of industrial power and therefore electricity generation/consumption: China. It's not even close.
 

pmc

Junior Member
Registered Member
you have to give practical example of complex aviation projects.
Not a single picture of factory with aircraft on production lines. so why question?
just this picture will tell you the factory size and it has new robotic line now. the whole thing is moving in air.

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The current data in Russia Welfare fund does not reflect current market prices of oil sales. it is cash received for sales agreed months earlier and there was draw downs from the fund in past two years. it is not some theoretical discussion. practical projects are done. to support Oil field. 2000MW electric station included for few thousand peoples. not many oil companies can afford 2000MW power station.

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Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
There is mininal feedback from the USA goverment regards of the option to see Russian military units in central america .

I started to make options, and they are interestin :
1. deploy Tu-160 and Tu-95 to Venezuela by the end of next week, with at least two unit of short and two strategic SAM
2. start to develop similar base like in Syria, with naval facilities
3. Make long term base leasing agreement with the respective goverments, similar like the one guaranting right for the USA in Guantanamo .


It will be entertraining.


I am sure we should see decisive move by the end of next week from the Russian Federation, and my bet is on start to station strategic combers in Venezuela, and same Bastion + S-400 in Cuba.

Afterwards an expansion in military infrastructure.


Main point should be the payment for the base use, it should be conducted in roubles, not foreign currency. For me that is the key paramtere of that business, that will be the watershed moment to see if Russia start to understand the playing rules of global empires.
 

gelgoog

Major
Registered Member
I think Russia would be hard pressed to convince Cuba to make a major move like installing nukes there. Given what happened last time they tried that. Venezuela might accept something like this but it ain't that close to the US either. Well not as close as Ukraine is to Russia anyway.

I think they should just make SSGNs and make patrols in range of the US coast.

Il-76 production rate has been really slow. I think not that long ago it was like 2 units a year. There is a reason China went with the Y-20 project instead of purchasing more units of the Il-76 in the first place. The Russians have so many Soviet made units in storage they could continue refurbishing those until the cows went home. Now they have that plan and ramped up the factory to produce up to 15 units a year yes but thus far production is nowhere near that.

Superjet production increased only recently. You are looking at accumulated gains from a longer program than the ARJ21. I do agree that the ARJ21 program is obsolete however. It makes one think why China didn't go with a more advanced project. But I guess this was closer to the McDonnell Douglas aircraft they used to manufacture.
 
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pmc

Junior Member
Registered Member
when Y-20 had first flight. there was no production line for IL-476. it takes several years before first flight happens.
so i am not sure why you are relating the two projects.
it took long to start production line as various specialized aircrafts were tested before it is certified. but once plane is certified for various missions. it is not much harder to scale up production. and you can see from the picture. the plane is already built on new line.

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