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Air Force Brat said:

USAF wanted 750 Raptors,

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So they wanted to destroy 750x144=108'000 Migs, not even counting other invincible types in the USAF service.

Seriously, there are other considerations than knightly fighter duel with USAF, which is unwinnable for modern Russia to begin with.

And even for such a duel there are more important deficiencies to fix.

Air Force Brat said:

now its a great 4++++ version of a Flanker,

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As much as f-35 is of a f-22.

One cannot make lofty statements of certainty until actual battle takes place and facts present themselves. And even so, the world we live in today, facts are distorted, truth is deliberately hidden to give way to deception and lies.

What facts are not distorted are as follows:

1. There would not be an ISIS which took vast swathes of Syrian and Iraqi territory had America not invaded and destroyed Iraq.

2. Syria would have also been utterly destroyed and be a mirror image of Iraq, had it not been for the Russian Federation extending help to the legitimate Syrian government (whatever their crimes be).

3. ISIS would not have be so powerful had it not been for Western countries arming so-called rebels.

4. Foreign hand is clearly visible for all to see, in attempts for a "Regime Change."

5. No country has any right to meddle in another country's internal affairs. It is both illegal and criminal to do so.

6. The blood of the innocent lives lost (tens of thousands) in Syria and Iraq, stained the hands of foreign interventionists.

As for the Russian Federation deploying it's most modern combat aircraft is concerned. Well, as with all things, it remains to be seen. And who would blame them in doing so? When faced with such overwhelming odds. Remember, it's not Russia who has hundreds of military bases around the world. Nor is it Russia who invaded Iraq, nor Libya, nor Somalia, nor Afghanistan.

Those who live in glass houses, ought not throw stones at others!

Gloire_bb said:

So they wanted to destroy 750x144=108'000 Migs, not even counting other invincible types in the USAF service.

Seriously, there are other considerations than knightly fighter duel with USAF, which is unwinnable for modern Russia to begin with.

And even for such a duel there are more important deficiencies to fix.


As much as f-35 is of a f-22.

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I NEVER said, nor implied any of that! yes F-22 is more capable in some flight dynamics than F-35, however "Hawk Carlisle" stated for the record that the F-35 was stealthier than the F-22. I believe him, he was Head of Air Combat Command 2 years ago when he made that statement, so you ought to as well...

I have NO doubt that F-35 is far more L/O than Su-57, and you can't shoot what you can't see, so against an F-35, the SU-57 would be detected first under most combat conditions,, but there is always the element of "chance", in gunfights as well as cards??? LOL

I can assure you that Russians know that as well, and that friend is the main reason the Russians are NOT wanting to buy 750 of them, and have limited their buy to 12 test and eval aircraft first. That they have flown two of the later prototypes to Syria? may mean they see Assad as a potential customer, or maybe they are looking at "forward basing" for the SU-57

the Russians have a plan, they work "all the angles, all the time",,, I'm not trying to be snarky, but underestimate their willingness to "engage" at your own risk?? they do indeed feel "lucky"??? and that "brass has paid off for them many times".

Air Force Brat said:

however "Hawk Carlisle" stated for the record that the F-35 was stealthier than the F-22. I believe him, he was Head of Air Combat Command 2 years ago when he made that statement, so you ought to as well...

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And I don't. Religion is a shaky thing, as you can see.

Air Force Brat said:

and you can't shoot what you can't see

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Air combat in Internet is quite simple.
But problem is, it's wrong. Because no fighter in production has taken shape which is considered optimal by Internet air combat.
And the fighters which did(ironically, it was primarily Soviet Union/Russia who considered them) never reached service, and were dropped instead.

Air Force Brat said:

I can assure you that Russians know that as well, and that friend is the main reason the Russians are NOT wanting to buy 750 of them

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There is a simpler reason: 750 fighters is more than RuAF can allow itself.
It's actually more than whole planned fighter strength of the AF.
At the same time, RuAF has more than just strike fighters, and fighter force is definitely not in the worst shape among different branches. And not that many money at the same time.
Long range aviation currently takes priority, because its' shape is far worse.

Air Force Brat said:

... hey if they could shoot down a couple of F-22's,, they would, but ...

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... but I didn't expect this level of sarcasm from you bro

I think they made a good move: why should they kid themselves at some exercises when now they can check what exactly a PAKFA sees when a Raptor is approaching
(they can easily stage an action on the ground and above it, and wait for Raptors flown off Al-Dafra down in the Emirates)

Jura said:

... but I didn't expect this level of sarcasm from you bro

I think they made a good move: why should they kid themselves at some exercises when now they can check what a PAKFA sees when a Raptor is approaching
(they can easily stage an action on the ground and above it, and wait for Raptors flown off Air Dafra down in the Emirates)

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Its absurdity Jura, its a literary "tool", I'm illustrating the absurdity of deploying two prototype aircraft for combat duty, with the ultimate absurdity that they could actually engage the F-22 Raptor and win????? see how absurd that is???

but I will say that "harassing EP-3's or P-8's with SU-27s??? is extremely hazardous for those US aircrew, and you know far better than I? how little respect the Russians have for "protocol", or life in general, when they equipped the "little green men" with AAM on mobile launchers and shot down that Malaysian airliner full of innocent people....

and I'm a cynical old you know what brother,, I love people, but I also KNOW people, and who's capable of what,,, sadly, while I love Russians too, there's a "thug element" that has very strong ethnic roots,, talk about cynicism, now they are cynical people,, come to think of it, some days you're as cynical as the Brat???

We all need a "real Jesus" everyday Bub!, him I do absolutely trust!

Jura said:

... but I didn't expect this level of sarcasm from you bro

I think they made a good move: why should they kid themselves at some exercises when now they can check what exactly a PAKFA sees when a Raptor is approaching
(they can easily stage an action on the ground and above it, and wait for Raptors flown off Al-Dafra down in the Emirates)

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I think its a brilliant move,,, like I said, I NEVER underestimate the Russians, or there bass-ackwards ingenuity,, Trump and Putin would be on much more civil terms right now, with that STUPID collusion probe, when there has obviously been NO collusion, but lots of normal Russian monkeying around, LOL..

and you're right, once they know what a real 5 Gen looks like on radar,,,??? they'll prolly have to go back to the drawing board????

Air Force Brat said:

Its absurdity Jura, its a literary "tool", I'm illustrating the absurdity of deploying two prototype aircraft for combat duty, with the ultimate absurdity that they could actually engage the F-22 Raptor and win????? see how absurd that is???

but I will say that "harassing EP-3's or P-8's with SU-27s??? is extremely hazardous for those US aircrew, and you know far better than I? how little respect the Russians have for "protocol", or life in general, when they equipped the "little green men" with AAM on mobile launchers and shot down that Malaysian airliner full of innocent people....

and I'm a cynical old you know what brother,, I love people, but I also KNOW people, and who's capable of what,,, sadly, while I love Russians too, there's a "thug element" that has very strong ethnic roots,, talk about cynicism, now they are cynical people,, come to think of it, some days you're as cynical as the Brat???

We all need a "real Jesus" everyday Bub!, him I do absolutely trust!

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Amen!

Air Force Brat said:

I think its a brilliant move,,, like I said, I NEVER underestimate the Russians, or there bass-ackwards ingenuity,, Trump and Putin would be on much more civil terms right now, with that STUPID collusion probe, when there has obviously been NO collusion, but lots of normal Russian monkeying around, LOL..

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also LOL but if you're right, the questions might've gone away some time ago, if then-National Security Advisor (!!) hadn't, you know

Air Force Brat said:

and you're right, once they know what a real 5 Gen looks like on radar,,,??? they'll prolly have to go back to the drawing board????

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I wouldn't be surprised if Russians axed PAKFA I mean if they found out, in close-to-combat conditions, Su-35 was good enough against so called stealth, S-400 locked on so called stealth etc.

Su-57 should still hold absolute superiority to 4th gens given the more modern avionics and LO.