Russia sells S-400 systems to China


tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
why is S400 can go after target 400 miles whereas HQ9B only 200 + miles? In terms of radar and rocket tech, China does not trail after Russia.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
Probably a matter of time. Russians starting developing S400 with superior rocket tech probably before China even received HQ9. I'm sure there are SAMs being tested similar in range and speed to S400 but nothing adopted by the PLA yet.
 

Totoro

Captain
VIP Professional
It is km, not miles.
We don't know context of Russian 400 km reach.
We don't know the context of alleged Chinese 200 km reach.
Alleged, as in we don't even know officially what the reach is. It could be more.

Hq9 is a bit smaller missile than missiles s400 and s300 use.

The 400 km range missile has not been disclosed yet. There is no way oh knowing if it is even a bit larger than shorter reach s400 missiles.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
According to Internet sources, HQ-9 is about 1300kg in weight. S-300 comes with two missiles, 5V55 and 48N6, which has improvements in range and guidance systems over the years. The 5V55 is about 1500kg, and replaced later by the 48N6 which is about 1800kg. In terms of length, the HQ-9 is smaller, around 6.8m vs. 7.5m for the other two. However we don't know what variant is the HQ-9, or if future variants assume a greater length, which could lead to increased range and account for the variation of quoted range figures for the HQ-9.

Those are pretty heavy SAMs. A Tomahawk is about 1300kg in weight. If used in a surface mode, and many SAMs have an optional surface to surface mode, these things can sink a ship, maybe not as much as the high explosive but from the mass and kinetic energy of the missile with exploding rocket propellant thrown in as bonus.

From this point, the 40N6 jumping to 400km while having the same weight as the 48N6 is likely due to either a dual or multiple pulse motor, or using a two stage rocket. I lean on this being a two stage rocket.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
According to Internet sources, HQ-9 is about 1300kg in weight. S-300 comes with two missiles, 5V55 and 48N6, which has improvements in range and guidance systems over the years. The 5V55 is about 1500kg, and replaced later by the 48N6 which is about 1800kg. In terms of length, the HQ-9 is smaller, around 6.8m vs. 7.5m for the other two. However we don't know what variant is the HQ-9, or if future variants assume a greater length, which could lead to increased range and account for the variation of quoted range figures for the HQ-9.

Those are pretty heavy SAMs. A Tomahawk is about 1300kg in weight. If used in a surface mode, and many SAMs have an optional surface to surface mode, these things can sink a ship, maybe not as much as the high explosive but from the mass and kinetic energy of the missile with exploding rocket propellant thrown in as bonus.

From this point, the 40N6 jumping to 400km while having the same weight as the 48N6 is likely due to either a dual or multiple pulse motor, or using a two stage rocket. I lean on this being a two stage rocket.
I am unable to recall the last time I saw a "two-stage" propulsion setup used in a modern SAM. Two-stage missiles are old school for back in the day when missiles were huge and propellant was primitive. Unless you're referring to a booster, which is technically not a "two-stage" setup, since a missile could certainly be launched without a booster but certainly could not be launched without a first stage.

Edit: I do believe the S-300V is a two-stage setup, but that would be the only one that I can think of.
 
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watdahek

New Member
Registered Member
I am unable to recall the last time I saw a "two-stage" propulsion setup used in a modern SAM. Two-stage missiles are old school for back in the day when missiles were huge and propellant was primitive. Unless you're referring to a booster, which is technically not a "two-stage" setup, since a missile could certainly be launched without a booster but certainly could not be launched without a first stage.

Edit: I do believe the S-300V is a two-stage setup, but that would be the only one that I can think of.
If you include ABM missiles, the SM-3 is a 3 or 4 stage missile, weighed in at only 1.5 tons. It seems missiles optimized for ABM all have multiple stages to give them higher interceptor speed
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
SM-3 is either three stages, or two stages with a booster, depending where the goal post between booster and stage begins.




Aster 15 and Aster 30 are two staged or booster, depending on how you see the bottom part.






Haven't found a good shot of the 40N6 missile though.
 

Wakingbake

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After Delivery From Russia, China Ready to Test S-400 Air Defense System
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22:00 27.07.2018Get short URL
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Russia has delivered all the necessary components to China for its first S-400 Triumf missile air defense system regiment, and Beijing does not plan to waste in any time in testing the new interceptor-based systems, according to reports.

"It is planned that in late July-early August the unit of the People's Liberation Army, which underwent training in Russia, will carry out the firing against a simulated ballistic target at a Chinese firing ground," The Diplomat reported Friday, citing defense sources.

China became the first international buyer of Triumf in 2015 when Rosoboronexport chief executive Anatoly Isaykin announced the deal in April of that year. The Triumf is a mobile aerial defense system designed to pick off aircraft, cruise missiles or ballistic missiles within a range of some 250 miles, the International Business Times has reported.


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China's acquisition of S-400 units includes the first delivery, which happened last week, as well as a second S-400 to be delivered by year's end. The deal was reported to be worth $3 billion.

"It is still unknown when the first S-400 unit will enter the service with the PLA, although a rapid induction, as evidenced by the recent announcement of the test firing, can be expected," The Diplomat report said.

Approximately 10 countries are considering procuring Russia's S-400 air defense systems, the head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Dmitry Shugayev, said in April 2018. "Many countries in the world have shown interest in this air defense system [S-400], first of all countries in the Middle East and North Africa… There is broad range of air defense weapons on the global market, yet the demand for Russian hardware remains stable. It is hardly likely that Russia will surrender this market to its rivals," Shugayev told the Interfax news agency.

In related S-400 news, US lawmakers are up in arms about the sale of an S-400 to Turkey, particularly because reports indicate the S-400s are capable of collecting data on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jet, which is considered one of the most expensive weapons programs in military history.


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A leaked draft of the next National Defense Authorization Act (or NDAA, a measure that is renewed by Congress annually) states that, if passed with the current language intact, the act "prohibits the delivery of F-35 aircraft to Turkey until the delivery of a report, which would include an assessment of a significant change in Turkish participation in the F-35 program, including potential elimination of such participation."

The Atlantic Council, a Washington think tank known to demonize Russia, noted in a July 25 analysis: "the Russian-made surface-to-air missile system poses a unique threat to American aircraft: the S-400's radar is able to act as a platform to collect electronic and signals intelligence from the F-35."

"If the [S-400] radar operates in Turkey, alongside the F-35, Moscow could potentially gain useful knowledge about the jet and be able to detect the jet at greater ranges, potentially giving Moscow useful data about NATO's future frontline fighter," according to the Atlantic Council.
 

Iron Man

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SM-3 is either three stages, or two stages with a booster, depending where the goal post between booster and stage begins.




Aster 15 and Aster 30 are two staged or booster, depending on how you see the bottom part.






Haven't found a good shot of the 40N6 missile though.
The SM-3 is not a SAM so much as a BMD missile. The Aster booster is.... a booster. Even MDBA calls it a booster.
 

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