Russia As A Chinese Hegemon's Right Hand Man
- Thread starter DarkStar
- Start date
Even France and UK are really not a good comparison. Russia is far more powerful and independent than them.
UK/France have nukes yes, but has no nuclear triad. Russia has the longest nuclear forces in the planet. Their nuclear subs are absolutely top. Their missile technology also top. And while the strategic bombers are smaller in numbers than the US they have far more than Chine (currently), and they restarted the production of modernized TU160M last year, and that is a very capable strategic missile carrier.
This is from the point of view of deterrence and nuclear forces, but additionally Russia has tremendous natural resources that give itself almost total independence. Food, fuel, minerals, water...
And also they have their military industrial complex basically independent. Meaning there is not important pieces or part coming from other countries.
This make the suppy chain far less vulnerable than for example western supply chain. US-EU oceanic supply chain for example would be intermediately a target in a bigger war.
Really it is not the same level. If you take military power Russia is probably stronger alone than full EU plus UK combined. Indeed we can see this in the Ukrainian war, without US EU is toothless. They can put money to create revolutions or movements but EU totally lacks the military muscle.
So, it is difficult to consider Russia a right hand of nobody.
However, the main population center of Russia is very in the West of the country, and its natural possibilities of expansion are towards the Slavic countries in Eastern Europe and the Balkans.
East part of Russia is barely populated, and with reason, I don't think many people understand how harsh is Siberian weather.
This make Russia a very useful "friendly country" for China. It is a powerful country, independent and that it does not cost you nothing. And it can distract your enemies in Europe, it does not have real possibilities of grow in Asia, and it can help you to fight Japan if the necessity arose.
And in general is difficult for China to have a right hand as Australia is for the US. Australia is basically same people than US, same religion, same ethnic, same cultural group.
I am not aware if there is any country that is not China and that has totally same people than China.
All 5 eyes should be consider as the same country in practical terms.
No they don't Russia's bomber fleet is smaller than China's. Russia has about 140 bombers while China has almost 300 H-6 bombers. Russian bombers are however, more capable at the moment but that will soon change with H-20 !
Also, Russia's missiles (Both technology and amount) probably got surpassed by China already !
Last edited:
Except in critical technology such as semiconductors and advanced CNC machine tools. Lucky for Russia, they can now import from China!
Not really, this war demonstrated that Russia's conventional forces is actually not that good!
he is talking about Russia's strength in context with European Union. like UK/France .. there is no need to compare China with Russia. as both countries are now strategic Allies..
China greatly benefited with Russia on their side and vice versa. Chinese companies overtaking Russian market left by Western companies. from Cars to Mobile phones to manufacturing good include some critical techs like tools , chips and machinery. Mandarin also overtaking French and other languages as second language by Russian people.. huge for Chinese soft power..
China's rise has been completely ignore by Russian in last 30 years up until this War. i think this is first time they are witnessing the prosperity of Asian giant.. its good for both countries..
I know, I am happy for the China-Russia alliance !
Indeed you are right, I was thinking that China had less (although I expected China to surpass russia in the upcoming decade when it will unveil its new strategic bomber). On the other hand, the TU160M and TU22M3 are more modern (even the original version) than the H6.
Anyway my point was not to compare Russia with China, but to compare Russia with France/UK. China is logically going to be several times more powerful than Russia, but that is more merit of China than demerit of Russia.
I think the semiconductors using in Russian army are Russian designed and produced by Mikron, at least in the SU35 and SU57 if you check the processor is a 90nm designed of some Moscow institute and produced by Mikron.
What Russia is lacking is lithography but lithography for 90 nm is not so difficult, they have the base tecnology development needed to create a lithographic machine of 90nm if it would be absolutely needed. I am talking about particle accelerators, synchroton and that staff
About CNC it could be, but the point is. No country it is independent in all its machinery and technology (maybe China is). But with an independent MIC I refer that there are no parts that are manufactured in other countries.
The difference is the next. If your military complex need to import a piece of a tank, you need a constant supply of that piece. This means a constant supply line that is possible to attack by an enemy.
If your MIC need some foreign tooling, of course you need supply of them, but its not a constant supply. Think of how many microprocessors you can manufacture with just one lithographic machine.
A tooling machine will contribute to hundred, thousands or ten of thousands pieces. You have more time to find machines in the black market, you dont have such a clear supply line, it is easier to compensate that carency.
About what this war has demonstrated or not.
Do you think that if the EU would have invade this Ukraine, and Ukraine would have been supported by Russia and China they would have been more successful?
I am from the EU and my personal assessment is that Ukraine would have kick our asses so hard that war would have been over in weeks.
Ukraine started the war with one of the densest anti aircraft defenses in the world. It inherited tremendous amount of missiles, launchers from the Soviet union because it was the "front country". It inherited the technology. And with US support it integrated all of it in a integrted air defence.
Ukraine has total support from US/EU satellite, almost limitless intel
Also Ukrainain (and soviet cities in general) are designed as fortresses.
Ukraine also had the largest army of Europe, the second biggest number of tanks, enormous amounts of manpads and antitanks from US and NATO in general
And what is almost as important important as the hardware. A radicalised population, total control of the news within the country, possibility of almost limitless mobilisation.
I am very careful to judge Russian performance based in this war. Performance is based in the skills of your enemy.
And the enemy of Russia in this war is very very skilled.
One have to be careful in extrapolate conclusions from it.
Compare this war with Afganistan or Iraq. The available tecnology they have, the forced massed agaisnt them, the lack of support from nobody, lack of any kind of intel, lack of even desire of fighting (in the case of Iraq there were full armies surrounding).
Now, delete the US from those wars and let the European countries fight them. Would they have won? even against enemies far less powerful than Ukraine ?
The Tu-22M3 has really ancient electronics and the ones in the Tu-160 are only slightly better.
The H-6K has way more modern electronics than either of those two.
This is supposed to be solved by the Tu-22M3M and Tu-160M. But neither are in service yet.
While the Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 are more advanced platforms they are really hobbled by their electronics. Russian heavy bombers still have short wave radios that communicate on the clear for example.
The H-6K has way more modern electronics than either of those two.
This is supposed to be solved by the Tu-22M3M and Tu-160M. But neither are in service yet.
While the Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 are more advanced platforms they are really hobbled by their electronics. Russian heavy bombers still have short wave radios that communicate on the clear for example.
TU160M2 is already in service. They manufactured 2 totally brand new in 2023 and also modernized other 2. So there are minimum 4 TU160M.
Modernization has been running since 2018, so if we assume 1 or 2 per year from 2018 to 2022 there should be from 4 to 8 TU160M
So form 8 to 12 modernized (or totally new) version of a really capable strategic bomber.
They will probably continue next years building 2 new per year and modernizing other 2 (limit of modernized are the original 17 TU160 that russia had)
Tu-22M3M is not in service but I think the current planes are not the original Tu-22M3, I think they received a partial modernization in the 2000s with new radars and other stuff. What they don't have is the new engines of the Tu-22M2M but electronics should be modern