RIMPAC 2018

T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Jura said:
what makes you say
[implying me] "think US should challenge China and not others"
?
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Because (???)o_O
Jura said:
I'm a half-day flight away from the SCS, but I can't imagine WHAT IF now Sweden/Germany/Russia started to reclaim the Baltic Sea

(just in case: in not that distant past, either of those countries possessed almost all of the enclosed land around that sea, so they might present 'historic claims' to all of it, I guess; by the way also Denmark/Poland had been very strong in the area, earlier than the three mentioned, but still)

and put on military assets like large airports, big radars etc. ... I said WHAT IF because all these countries except Russia are in EU ...

I know the SCS is like ten times bigger than the Baltic Sea, it's not just China reclaiming (for example
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), anyway I don't understand why the US didn't challenge China

I hope you won't take it as warmongering or something, I've read about Wars (just some of them, of course) in the Baltic Sea area since around 1000 until 1945, but this is not what I mean, I mean many countries might draw their 'X-dash' line and began reclaiming huh?
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
here's comes NavalToday story
US disinvites China from exercise RIMPAC 2018
The US defense department has decided to withdraw its invitation for China to take part in the upcoming large-scale exercise Rim of the Pacific in Hawaii.

This was announced by Pentagon spokesman Marine Lt. Col. Christopher Logan who said the decision was part of the US response to China’s actions in the South China Sea and its militarization of artificial islands.

“We have strong evidence that China has deployed anti-ship missiles, surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems, and electronic jammers to contested features in the Spratly Islands region of the South China Sea. China’s landing of bomber aircraft at Woody Island has also raised tensions,” Logan said.

The People’s Liberation Army Navy took part in the previous two iterations of the exercise in 2014 and 2016, joining submarine-rescue and non-warfighting portions of the exercise.

China’s participation in the largest international maritime drill was also disputed in 2016 according to media reports which said US officials called on Barrack Obama to ban China from participating in military exercise. Despite the reports, China took part in RIMPAC 2016 with one missile destroyer, a missile frigate, a supply ship, a hospital ship and a submarine rescue vessel.

Pentagon’s decision to exclude China from the 2018 edition of the drill was described as “unconstructive” by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi who spoke to reporters after meeting with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Washington. Yi defended China’s actions in the South China Sea saying his country was only building civilian and necessary defense facilities on its own islands.

Spy ships during RIMPAC

Despite being invited to the 2016 and 2014 edition of the exercise, China sent spy ships to observe US Navy and other ally ships during the maneuvers. Russia was not invited to RIMPAC 2016 after it annexed Crimea in 2014. Despite this, Russia deployed navy ships off Hawaii to observe the exercise.
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source:
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T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Let me be blatantly honest, Rimpac is NATO without a treaty from its inception. It is a demonstration of USN domination of the Pacific Ocean. The invitation of non compliant countries is pure political maneuver to say "I am not picking on you, are we good?". The natural response from the invitee is of course "Sure, we are good, I did not think you were picking on me." The invitation could not have been sincere because true sincerity means no rimpac in the first place. The acceptance of the invitation is just "don't slap the smiling face politeness". Neither sides want to be seen as confrontational. Removing this political layer, what is left is military drill of allies. A drill always has a target, nobody is playing an expensive game with guns and missiles.

The conclusion is, neither did US want China in the party, nor was China eager in joining the party. Nothing worth to be excited about.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
now was thinking about this 'disinvite' situation and I'm guessing
RIMPAC 2018
is going to be very interesting, as China will send surveillance vessels

this is what I'm predicting in my chair in the middle of Europe LOL
 
W

weig2000

Captain
Watching PLAN's South China Sea parade last month, I was thinking when China will hold a similar or even larger scale parade in WestPac, somewhere between 1st island chain and 2nd island chain, say.

It appears that PLAN has set an internal target date of 2025 as the day when it will arrive as a blue-water navy. I would think that would be a good time for PLAN to hold a large parade or even a multinational naval exercise, perhaps even inviting USN ships to participate.

Some years ago, the USN would invite PLAN to visit their various ships and facilities, in the name of transparency, trust building and avoiding miscalculations. Some of their personnel went on record saying that those also served to "deter" PLA from any miscalculation. PLAN personnel said publicly that they understood that purpose of showing off. In more recent years, the USN would demand reciprocity, being sensitive that they should not disclose or expose more information than absolutely necessary to their PLAN counterparts. That's why we saw high-level officers from USN visiting Liaoning and conventional submarines etc. So I do observe attitudes change over time and will definitely expect more to come.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
taxiya said:
Let me be blatantly honest, Rimpac is NATO without a treaty from its inception. It is a demonstration of USN domination of the Pacific Ocean. The invitation of non compliant countries is pure political maneuver to say "I am not picking on you, are we good?". The natural response from the invitee is of course "Sure, we are good, I did not think you were picking on me." The invitation could not have been sincere because true sincerity means no rimpac in the first place. The acceptance of the invitation is just "don't slap the smiling face politeness". Neither sides want to be seen as confrontational. Removing this political layer, what is left is military drill of allies. A drill always has a target, nobody is playing an expensive game with guns and missiles.

The conclusion is, neither did US want China in the party, nor was China eager in joining the party. Nothing worth to be excited about.
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All those years it has been a gigantic waste of time and resources for China, because China was never invited to the more important pieces of the RIMPAC exercies anyway, thus the "disinvite" means the gloves are now off, which is better for everyone. Heck, with the USN keeps playing chicken in SCS and their every successive CO, USPACOM begging for war against China, PLAN actually have more opportunities to conduct genuine wargames, with real USN and USAF assets as willing OPFOR. And likely the US assets will bring live ammo into the scene, to trigger a real war.
 
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