Like the grenade iron sights? It doesn't seem like they have any to begin with..
Edt: nevermind it seems they do.
QBZ-191 service rifle family
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
Edt: nevermind it seems they do.
Neither the grenade irons nor the rifle irons are being used correctly. I just wish there were more noise on the CN side so these problems get shifted to a higher priority. As it is, the improvements are too slow.
it's ok to have your finger on the trigger
Alright ... LFG!!!
I'd be happy to just munch popcorn and watch this thread get locked but just so I don't get sent to the naughty corner myself ... my 2c take on this
It's never okay.
Yes, You have your safety protocols wrt weapon loaded status (mag out, empty mag in/not racked, etc)
Yes, You have your mechanical weapon safety.
But all the above can and will fail.
Say you are at the end of a Live Fire. You stand in place, unload, clear your weapon and wait for your commander to conduct a chamber check. First safety gate. You troop down to a clearing where the safety officer conducts a second group weapon clearing and chamber check. Second safety gate. There are further safety checks when you get to the admin point but you'd think the above is pretty robust.
It ain't. I've seen failures (chambered rounds) occur right up to the admin point.
Your best safety is 2 simple rules.
1. Don't point at anything other than downrange.
2. Don't put your finger in the trigger guard unless you are ready to take a shot.
The reason why this has to be ingrained till it's as unconscious an action as breathing is because when you're out in the field, sleep deprived for x days on end, handling live ammo in a high stress environment ... this is prime high error rate environment and Murphy will come acalling, you can bet your last crypto on it.
Nothing is safer than not pointing your weapon and not putting your finger in the trigger. Then the only errors are from mechanical failures, which are very rare.
You guys are really nit picking to the extreme. If they've passed basic, they know how to use sights (iron and/or optical) and shoot to the required level of accuracy.
This is clearly another photo op, ie. it's a posed photo. Don't know about you guys but I've been on a couple of for magazine photo shoots and also a for-tv ad shoot. Soldiers are not actors. People who naturally know what to do will stiffen up and suddenly not look right just cos a humongous lens is pointed at them. Don't believe me, go talk to a wedding photographer and their experiences with people doing their wedding album.
Soldiers pointing their weapons into empty space for a photo shoot? No actual target available so they naturally don't aim down the sights. They naturally look above/around the sights. You need to a director to spot these little details and direct these amateur "actors" to get it to look right. That's why a lot of movie scene firefights look off and the rare ones that do look "right" are often cos there is a director and consultant on site focused on making it look right.
If you have candid shots of soldiers getting it wrong with live ammo and targets ... sure get upset. But even then I'd not worry if it's not a graded shoot, cos there's generally no telling hit/misses in a live fire for small arms and most people have fun with suppressive rapid fire rather than slow deliberate accurate fire. If you have candid pictures of soldiers in an actual graded range shoot and they are still presenting the same posture, then sure, have at them - their training officer deserves to be put on the target line.
in combat zone which what those troops were training for Having your finger on the trigger is better than not, you must be always ready ,we've seen in russia v ukraine war soldiers that were in field always had their finger on trigger
Alright ... LFG!!!
I'd be happy to just munch popcorn and watch this thread get locked but just so I don't get sent to the naughty corner myself ... my 2c take on this
It's never okay.
Yes, You have your safety protocols wrt weapon loaded status (mag out, empty mag in/not racked, etc)
Yes, You have your mechanical weapon safety.
But all the above can and will fail.
Say you are at the end of a Live Fire. You stand in place, unload, clear your weapon and wait for your commander to conduct a chamber check. First safety gate. You troop down to a clearing where the safety officer conducts a second group weapon clearing and chamber check. Second safety gate. There are further safety checks when you get to the admin point but you'd think the above is pretty robust.
It ain't. I've seen failures (chambered rounds) occur right up to the admin point.
Your best safety is 2 simple rules.
1. Don't point at anything other than downrange.
2. Don't put your finger in the trigger guard unless you are ready to take a shot.
The reason why this has to be ingrained till it's as unconscious an action as breathing is because when you're out in the field, sleep deprived for x days on end, handling live ammo in a high stress environment ... this is prime high error rate environment and Murphy will come acalling, you can bet your last crypto on it.
Nothing is safer than not pointing your weapon and not putting your finger in the trigger. Then the only errors are from mechanical failures, which are very rare.
You guys are really nit picking to the extreme. If they've passed basic, they know how to use sights (iron and/or optical) and shoot to the required level of accuracy.
This is clearly another photo op, ie. it's a posed photo. Don't know about you guys but I've been on a couple of for magazine photo shoots and also a for-tv ad shoot. Soldiers are not actors. People who naturally know what to do will stiffen up and suddenly not look right just cos a humongous lens is pointed at them. Don't believe me, go talk to a wedding photographer and their experiences with people doing their wedding album.
Soldiers pointing their weapons into empty space for a photo shoot? No actual target available so they naturally don't aim down the sights. They naturally look above/around the sights. You need to a director to spot these little details and direct these amateur "actors" to get it to look right. That's why a lot of movie scene firefights look off and the rare ones that do look "right" are often cos there is a director and consultant on site focused on making it look right.
If you have candid shots of soldiers getting it wrong with live ammo and targets ... sure get upset. But even then I'd not worry if it's not a graded shoot, cos there's generally no telling hit/misses in a live fire for small arms and most people have fun with suppressive rapid fire rather than slow deliberate accurate fire. If you have candid pictures of soldiers in an actual graded range shoot and they are still presenting the same posture, then sure, have at them - their training officer deserves to be put on the target line.
This was the moment before they pulled the trigger — in fact, it was a live-fire exercise.
Having fingers on the trigger is NEVER better than not. If you have true faith in your dictum, I'll like to invite you on a night patrol on a hilly forest trail with someone 6 paces behind you, weapon loaded and his finger on trigger all the time. The vast majority of unintended discharge of a weapon is almost always a ND because of itchy finger on a trigger when it shouldn't be.
That microscopic fraction of a second to move your trigger finger is a non factor. Easily blended into the time taken to bring your weapon to bear and get a sight picture. If your weapon has a good thumb safety, you can even have the safety on and it will barely affect your ability to engage. More important to have your weapon in a ready posture (tiring as it may be) with butt seated, hands on weapon correctly and fingers OFF the trigger.
I honestly do not know of any military that trains that - finger on trigger is better. Photos of Ukraine conflict - where there are sufficient numbers of undertrained, pressganged Ukraine troops - The photos are more likely indicative of poor training rather than proof of such practice being standard.
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