QBZ-191 service rifle family

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Back during desert storm and the start of gulf war 2, the US also used primarily such standard mech formations.

But after the Iraqi regular army where destroyed, there wasn’t really much need for having MBTs around, and regular IFVs were little protection against IEDs. Tracked IFVs were also not very neighbourly to operate in urban areas as their tracks tended to chew up tarmac roads pretty badly.

Hence the western shift towards humvees and strykers, and then finally wheeled mine proof armoured vehicles.
I think your assessment is flawed here.

Those formations still exist in western forces. At least US forces.
The Stryker and MRAP element are built from what was UN-mechenized infantry formations. Heavy armored Brigades retain them. Well medium brigades became Stryker or 8x8 mechanized replacing older Humvees. And light Brigades moved to Humvees and other light support vehicles.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
The PLA has an unique appreciation of the importance of logistics almost engrained in its DNA thanks to its beginnings and most notable foreign campaign to date (Korea).

As such, they try to streamline as much as possible, and can be fairly resistant to taking on new stuff because of the logistical impact such changes will bring as much as because of the added monetary costs.

Because of this, the PLA really managed to make a truly man-portable 50cal/12.7mm HMG with the QJZ-89, and looks to be making an even lighter next gen 50cal.

As such, one can easily understand why they dispensed with the 308 cal/7.62mm GPMGs and standardised on 5.8mm and 12.7mm as it’s two machine gun calibers.

5.8 gives you standardised ammo as the regular infantry (both the standard issue rifle 95s and 88s can use both standard and MG ammo, indeed, the 95-1 improved standard service rifle has started using MG ammo as standard anyways); while 12.7 gives you range and punch way beyond what 7.62 could hope to achieve.

I don’t think the PLA is a big believer of suppression fire like some western militaries, and prefer accuracy and efficiency, again owing to its logistics focus. Hence their preference for grenade launchers.

If you engage in a firefight with a PLA unit from cover, they will either obliterate you alongside said cover with 12.7mm machine gun fire, and/or blast you with grenade launchers rather than rain lead on your position. With the proliferation of sniper rifles, that also adds to the PLA’s toolkit when dealing with enemies in cover.

Interestingly, I think the PLA is also set to standardised on 5.8 and 12.7 as their sniper rifle calibers for the same reason as their machine gun caliber choices.

The main drawback of these choices would be volume of fire available at medium engagement ranges. Infantry can only carry a small number of 100 round 12.7 ammo drums, and the drums themselves are too heavy to expect all squad members to be able to carry a spare, as you could with 7.62.

I suppose you can get all squad members to carry 25-50 round belts of 50cal ammo in pouches, so while the machine gunner rattles off the canned ammo, the second man of the machine gun team could collect these pouches from the rest of the squad to reload spend drums, or just feed them directly into the MG.

But even then you are not going to have anywhere close to the number of 7.62 rounds you can have, so there will be no real chance that a typical PLA squad can keep multiple enemy positions effectively suppressed at medium range to allow the GI to advance on them, as many western armies are trained to operate.

The PLA is a much more heavily mechanised force than most western militaries these days, so they would not expect to get into many medium ranges engagements, as they will rely on their armoured transports to bring the infantry in close to dismount and engage the enemy rather than try to close on foot.

As China starts to develop and deploy expeditionary forces further and further abroad, it would be interesting to see if they stick with their heavy mechanised infantry force structure, or shift to a more western rapid response light infantry model, and what, if any impact that might have on their infantry weapon choices in the future.
you have to rethink your perception of suppressive fire. in the old days suppressive fire is sometimes falsely equated to volume of fire. in reality it has as much to do with accuracy as volume. in fact many armies, I believe including the PLA, is beginning to incline towards accuracy. There are actual data from studies of firefights in the middle east that supports this change in mindset. US and Britian are already beginning to give up M249 in their squads/sections for more accurate weapons, the Chinese are also using type 88 at section level. This kind of shift actually works in favour of streamlining of logistics
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
US and Britian are already beginning to give up M249 in their squads/sections for more accurate weapons
There are two major factors in the decline of the M249 for the Infantry. Accuracy is one of them the other is weight. M249 and Type 88 are about 14-16 pounds empty add in weight of ammo and it’s tipping 20 pounds. That’s a lot of weight.
 

Kejora

Junior Member
Registered Member
LMG-3.jpg

ELQKCrjVAAA60JM

LMG-4.jpg


I also noticed this new LMG doesn't have tripod mount like QJY-88
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
There are two major factors in the decline of the M249 for the Infantry. Accuracy is one of them the other is weight. M249 and Type 88 are about 14-16 pounds empty add in weight of ammo and it’s tipping 20 pounds. That’s a lot of weight.

Squad machine gunner also has to lug around an extra ammo box so basically another 10 lbs. on top of that. That means the SAW gunner is carrying like an extra 20 lbs. over a rifleman.

It's not so bad marching, but once you are running around, it gets to you
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Many of China's new weapons seem to prefer milled receivers with nice aesthetic, it seems they started to abandon the doctrine on cheap mass produced weapons.
Honestly there is very little proof that other methods of arms production especially that of the stamped steel method produces inferior products in comparison to milled ones. The Germans proved that during ww2.
 
Top