PRC/PLAN Laser and Rail Gun Development Thread

sferrin

Junior Member
Registered Member
Didn't know these details before and they surely explains a lot.

Though does that also mean guided munition's major obstacle is not the electrical components under the affect of EM field produced by railgun but rather higher acceleration than compared to tube artillery. And we know EM launching technology would be able to smooth the acceleration curve which naturally means a railgun would potentially be able to fire the same smart munition at a speed considerably higher than tube artillery. It's close in HVP's case but it doesn't have to be that way. And eventually new breakthrough would be achieved providing smart munition able to sustain higher acceleration capitalizing railgun's vast advantage.

So I believe railgun still could achieve a much better performance with smart munition in short terms. And in long terms it would be a magnitude better than any traditional guns in almost everyway.
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Talks about when the projectile and railguns themselves got zeroed out and some of the issues.

"The Navy’s proposed FY2022 budget requests research and development funding for continued
work on SSLs, but proposes suspending further work on the EMRG and GLGP programs and
requests no research and development funding for them."
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
AHEAD munitions much more effective than rail guns not to mention all the terminal phase maneuvers missiles do these days.

Rail guns are meant to deliver cheap area saturation bombing (i.e lots of possible civilian casualties) at stand-off distance. It is strictly an offensive weapon. The Zumwalt lesson is also application to China's rail gun effort.

Against which countries can China/055 use such weapons? Missiles (and arsenal ships) are much better for force projection and much more politically palatable. EM technologies have great potentials as 'launchers' (vs 'guns').
railguns can fire Beidou or radar guided munitions with folded wings. as long as the electronics are sufficiently acceleration hardened it isn't an issue. With 100 km range, it would be sufficient for mid range work and even outrange many mid range missiles.
 

Andy1974

Senior Member
Registered Member
Rail Guns can get scramjet engines up to operating speed, thus negating the need for a booster. This means ultra low launch costs for anything powered by scram jet. Rare earths make anything magnetic where it needs to be.

Acceleration is spread over a longer time, which could lower max acceleration than if fired from a regular gun.
 

Coalescence

Senior Member
Registered Member
Rail Guns can get scramjet engines up to operating speed, thus negating the need for a booster. This means ultra low launch costs for anything powered by scram jet. Rare earths make anything magnetic where it needs to be.

Acceleration is spread over a longer time, which could lower max acceleration than if fired from a regular gun.
This would also help with spacecraft launchers, lowering the cost of launching rockets and satellites, opening up a new avenue for militarization of space. It could also make the US's idea of "Rod from Gods" system more viable.

Also some speculations on the future of warfare I have I want to share. Railguns might become a counter to laser weapons, as laser anti-missile systems works by penetrating and igniting the explosive materials inside the missile or drones. With a powerful enough railgun, you could rely entirely on the kinetic force and weight of the ammunition to deal damage instead, while laser weapons won't be able to vaporize them fast enough to be destroyed.
 

Andy1974

Senior Member
Registered Member
This would also help with spacecraft launchers, lowering the cost of launching rockets and satellites, opening up a new avenue for militarization of space. It could also make the US's idea of "Rod from Gods" system more viable.

Also some speculations on the future of warfare I have I want to share. Railguns might become a counter to laser weapons, as laser anti-missile systems works by penetrating and igniting the explosive materials inside the missile or drones. With a powerful enough railgun, you could rely entirely on the kinetic force and weight of the ammunition to deal damage instead, while laser weapons won't be able to vaporize them fast enough to be destroyed.
The point is to get the scramjet to starting speed, which will then allow it to accelerate from there, maybe up to Mach 20. Would be great if it could fit in a new VLS system, for next gen ships.
 

Strangelove

Colonel
Registered Member
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Ready, aim, print: China’s rail gun gets an edge with 3D-printed part​

  • Military researchers use the technology to improve speed, durability of coveted army weapon
  • New part is about half the weight of those made with traditional methods

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in Beijing Published: 8:30pm, 3 Feb, 2023 Updated: 8:30pm, 3 Feb, 2023

Military researchers have used a 3D-printed part to improve the speed and durability of a specialised army weapon, the rail gun. Photo: handout

Military researchers have used a 3D-printed part to improve the speed and durability of a specialised army weapon, the rail gun. Photo: handout

A team of Chinese military engineers say they have found a way to boost the performance of a weapon known as a
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
with the aid of 3D printing technology – an achievement previously thought to be unfeasible.

“The obvious benefits point to an important road to the future,” said senior military engineer Zhang Qingxia and her colleagues in a paper published in the domestic peer-reviewed journal Ordnance Material Science and Engineering on January 11.

Zhang, who led the research team at an army weapon research institute based in Beijing, said they 3D-printed one of the most critical components of the rail gun system.
Through a series of tests, it was proved that smart manufacturing technology could effectively increase the performance of a rail gun even in the most demanding conditions, the researchers said in the paper.

A rail gun is a kinetic energy weapon that uses electromagnetic force to fire a non-explosive projectile at seven times the speed of sound. A ship-mounted Chinese version of the weapon is being developed to hit a target more than 200km (125 miles) away, far greater than the range of conventional artillery.

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uses autonomous machinery to add raw materials layer by layer to manufacture a part. The technique enables the creation of components that have shapes which are difficult to achieve with traditional methods, such as irregular metal parts with a honeycomb-like structure inside to reduce weight.

But compared to traditional methods such as casting or forging, 3D-printed parts can be weaker and therefore unsuitable for the demands of something like a rail gun, which operates under extreme physical stress and powerful electric currents.

By using a laser beam to melt fine powder obtained from an aluminium alloy, Zhang’s team was able to 3D print the weapon’s armature, resulting in a component that was about half the weight of those made with traditional methods.

The armature is a saddle-shaped device in which the projectile is mounted before launch. When an electric current is applied to the armature, the device generates a huge electromagnetic force that moves forward on a rail, propelling the projectile to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

The key is in the weight of the armature – the lighter it is, the faster the projectile will travel when launched from the gun.

By using hollow structures, 3D printing can make armatures lighter, but the process has many challenges since armatures must endure enormous stress, according to Zhang.

The hollow structures that allow for weight reduction also create fragility. If they are located in the wrong place of the armature, the electric current will be impeded, increasing the risk of melting and failure.

Zhang’s team printed two prototypes – one with holes throughout the body of the component and the other with less empty space in areas where the electric currents concentrated.

In the experiments, the armature with the more aggressive design with more holes increased the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
by nearly 90 per cent using a relatively low energy charge.

The ultralight weight helped and the 3D-printed structure also appeared to be more flexible during acceleration. A slight change in shape had significantly reduced the amount of wear to the component from the rail.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

However, when the researchers increased the strength of the electric current, the component melted.

The other version with fewer holes could endure both the electronic and physical stress when the hypersonic weapon was operating at peak power output.

While the increase in launch speed was a modest 5 per cent, the experiment suggested that 3D printing technology provided advantages over traditional manufacturing methods, according to the researchers.

After decades for research in rail gun development, the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
reportedly scrapped its programme last year in favour of hypersonic missile development because of concerns the rail gun weapon would be impractical in a real battle.

China, however, has continued efforts to develop rail gun technology. In 2018, China’s military test fired a rail gun on a warship, though the launch exposed serious problems.

In recent years, Chinese scientists have announced
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in coating materials that reduce wear on the rails, a power supply system for the pulse energy weapons, and hardened chips that can survive the physical and electric shocks at launch.

China’s military has said that by boosting the effective firing range of the country’s war ships, rail guns could help protect overseas infrastructure investments.

Advances in electromagnetic rail gun propulsion have also trickled down into China’s civilian sectors, such as hyperloop testing, which aims to someday propel passenger trains to a speed of 1,000km/h (621mph).
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Colonel
Registered Member
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Ready, aim, print: China’s rail gun gets an edge with 3D-printed part​

  • Military researchers use the technology to improve speed, durability of coveted army weapon
  • New part is about half the weight of those made with traditional methods

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in Beijing Published: 8:30pm, 3 Feb, 2023 Updated: 8:30pm, 3 Feb, 2023

Military researchers have used a 3D-printed part to improve the speed and durability of a specialised army weapon, the rail gun. Photo: handout

Military researchers have used a 3D-printed part to improve the speed and durability of a specialised army weapon, the rail gun. Photo: handout

A team of Chinese military engineers say they have found a way to boost the performance of a weapon known as a
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
with the aid of 3D printing technology – an achievement previously thought to be unfeasible.

“The obvious benefits point to an important road to the future,” said senior military engineer Zhang Qingxia and her colleagues in a paper published in the domestic peer-reviewed journal Ordnance Material Science and Engineering on January 11.

Zhang, who led the research team at an army weapon research institute based in Beijing, said they 3D-printed one of the most critical components of the rail gun system.
Through a series of tests, it was proved that smart manufacturing technology could effectively increase the performance of a rail gun even in the most demanding conditions, the researchers said in the paper.

A rail gun is a kinetic energy weapon that uses electromagnetic force to fire a non-explosive projectile at seven times the speed of sound. A ship-mounted Chinese version of the weapon is being developed to hit a target more than 200km (125 miles) away, far greater than the range of conventional artillery.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
uses autonomous machinery to add raw materials layer by layer to manufacture a part. The technique enables the creation of components that have shapes which are difficult to achieve with traditional methods, such as irregular metal parts with a honeycomb-like structure inside to reduce weight.

But compared to traditional methods such as casting or forging, 3D-printed parts can be weaker and therefore unsuitable for the demands of something like a rail gun, which operates under extreme physical stress and powerful electric currents.

By using a laser beam to melt fine powder obtained from an aluminium alloy, Zhang’s team was able to 3D print the weapon’s armature, resulting in a component that was about half the weight of those made with traditional methods.

The armature is a saddle-shaped device in which the projectile is mounted before launch. When an electric current is applied to the armature, the device generates a huge electromagnetic force that moves forward on a rail, propelling the projectile to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

The key is in the weight of the armature – the lighter it is, the faster the projectile will travel when launched from the gun.

By using hollow structures, 3D printing can make armatures lighter, but the process has many challenges since armatures must endure enormous stress, according to Zhang.

The hollow structures that allow for weight reduction also create fragility. If they are located in the wrong place of the armature, the electric current will be impeded, increasing the risk of melting and failure.

Zhang’s team printed two prototypes – one with holes throughout the body of the component and the other with less empty space in areas where the electric currents concentrated.

In the experiments, the armature with the more aggressive design with more holes increased the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
by nearly 90 per cent using a relatively low energy charge.

The ultralight weight helped and the 3D-printed structure also appeared to be more flexible during acceleration. A slight change in shape had significantly reduced the amount of wear to the component from the rail.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

However, when the researchers increased the strength of the electric current, the component melted.

The other version with fewer holes could endure both the electronic and physical stress when the hypersonic weapon was operating at peak power output.

While the increase in launch speed was a modest 5 per cent, the experiment suggested that 3D printing technology provided advantages over traditional manufacturing methods, according to the researchers.

After decades for research in rail gun development, the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
reportedly scrapped its programme last year in favour of hypersonic missile development because of concerns the rail gun weapon would be impractical in a real battle.

China, however, has continued efforts to develop rail gun technology. In 2018, China’s military test fired a rail gun on a warship, though the launch exposed serious problems.

In recent years, Chinese scientists have announced
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in coating materials that reduce wear on the rails, a power supply system for the pulse energy weapons, and hardened chips that can survive the physical and electric shocks at launch.

China’s military has said that by boosting the effective firing range of the country’s war ships, rail guns could help protect overseas infrastructure investments.

Advances in electromagnetic rail gun propulsion have also trickled down into China’s civilian sectors, such as hyperloop testing, which aims to someday propel passenger trains to a speed of 1,000km/h (621mph).
Other than increasing the durability and service life, China also needs to significantly expand the range of the naval railgun, if the PLAN intends to field railguns onto warships in the future.

China's current shipborne railgun firing range record is 200 kilometers. Need to extend that range further in order for the railgun to be useful in the FIC and SIC.
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
Other than increasing the durability and service life, China also needs to significantly expand the range of the naval railgun, if the PLAN intends to field railguns onto warships in the future.

China's current shipborne railgun firing range record is 200 kilometers. Need to extend that range further in order for the railgun to be useful in the FIC and SIC.
200km is already greater than the range of the 180-km YJ-83, which is the most numerous AshM in PLAN service. The point is thin out enemy combatants using YJ-21s, YJ-18s, and DF-21D/DF-26s. Then move in to kill the rest with railguns and other shorter range weapons. More importantly, railguns - if their material issues were resolved - could be fired repeatedly, literally shredding enemy vessels or ground targets.
 

lcloo

Captain
Interesting questions:-

1) How to guide a dumb solid projectile (with no electronic guidance built-in) to a target beyonf 100km away?
2) What is the maximum accerelation that electronic gear inside a guided projectile can with-stand?
3) What effect the magnetic field in the rail gun will have on guided projectile?
4) Can rail gun projectile contain explosive like normal 155mm shell?
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Interesting questions:-

1) How to guide a dumb solid projectile (with no electronic guidance built-in) to a target beyonf 100km away?
2) What is the maximum accerelation that electronic gear inside a guided projectile can with-stand?
3) What effect the magnetic field in the rail gun will have on guided projectile?
For railgun, even with a lower peak acceleration, it can actually achieve a much higher average acceleration. I don’t think that’s an issue…
 
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