Power Armor?


AssassinsMace

Brigadier
I feel like I have to point out that the drone vs crew/operator argument can be applied to anything. Why have pilots sit in a plane enduring high Gs and risking his life when he can be sitting safely behind a monitor with a playstation controller? Why have a tank crew when you can just have tank drones? Etc.

Personally, I think "Robot Wars" are a longer way off than "Power Armor" for a variety of reasons. Of course, a Terminator would be more effective than a Spartan, but I think the Spartan is more achievable in practice (minus the energy shield).
Well then what's the point of developing a power suit to put a human in? Drone aircraft are also a different animal. The only difference is there's no human in there flying it. Everything else about it is the same with a regular aircraft. With power armor or mech... that's complicated and a lot of moving parts all working at once. That's going to be an expensive piece of hardware... that will be destroyed by a cheaper tank. That's what I'm talking about practical. There's nothing special that will give it an edge on the battlefield. It's just different not better.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
There are in my view three things we must do to clarify this thread.
one move if out of Army its more a club room.
Two define powered armor vs powered exoskeleton
three define mecha vs powered armor.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
I feel like I have to point out that the drone vs crew/operator argument can be applied to anything. Why have pilots sit in a plane enduring high Gs and risking his life when he can be sitting safely behind a monitor with a playstation controller? Why have a tank crew when you can just have tank drones? Etc.

Personally, I think "Robot Wars" are a longer way off than "Power Armor" for a variety of reasons. Of course, a Terminator would be more effective than a Spartan, but I think the Spartan is more achievable in practice (minus the energy shield).


Why is a terminator that does not quite cut the human out of the loop, but simply place the human part of the loop offsite at a remote location, be less achievable than a spartan?
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Well there are these guys who beat you to the idea by 50 years!

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That aside, the thrust of this thread sounds to me like people who want to enjoy a good war but are too cissy to want to get shot, maimed or even killed. In which case a small tractor drone is probably your best solution, so it can do all the dirty work while you sit safe warm and secure in a nice bunker, sipping bear and whistling misty.
 

solarz

Brigadier
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Well then what's the point of developing a power suit to put a human in? Drone aircraft are also a different animal. The only difference is there's no human in there flying it. Everything else about it is the same with a regular aircraft. With power armor or mech... that's complicated and a lot of moving parts all working at once. That's going to be an expensive piece of hardware... that will be destroyed by a cheaper tank. That's what I'm talking about practical. There's nothing special that will give it an edge on the battlefield. If just different not better.
No doubt the tank will be cheaper, but a power armored soldier can do things that a tank can't do. The difference between power armor and a mech is that power armor is still about the size of a human, albeit more bulky. This allows the soldier to maneuver through human habitation much more easily than a tank or a mech. The corollary to that is it allows the soldier to do things that regular soldiers can do, except with more offensive and staying power.

For example, operations that used to require 2-3 squads of SEAL teams would only require 2 power armored soldiers. Operations that used to require an entire company of soldiers can now be done with only a squad of 5 power armored soldiers. Comparatively, the power armored soldiers would be easier to transport and easier to drop behind enemy lines.

Note that they would not normally be sent to hold the line against a tank squadron, but more operations like rescuing VIPs or taking out enemy command centers.

Those are just examples of things I can think of.

There are in my view three things we must do to clarify this thread.
one move if out of Army its more a club room.
Two define powered armor vs powered exoskeleton
three define mecha vs powered armor.
I'd rather we keep the discussion to a realistic level, if possible. I am not too concerned about the definition of power armor, as that is part of the discussion. As for mecha, I would define it as a vehicle much larger than a human.

Why is a terminator that does not quite cut the human out of the loop, but simply place the human part of the loop offsite at a remote location, be less achievable than a spartan?
It may be technically achievable, but is it more practical in the field? I can't really say, but then I have to wonder, why don't we have remote-controlled tanks?
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I think the concept would be more useful for law enforcement units that have to storm buildings or face a complex tight environments or responding to terrorism.

That supermarket terrorist attack in africa would be one situation where such armour may be useful.

Basically used for: 1) small squad force, not convenient to equip large number of people
2) Relatively low probability of use, the everyday wear and tear would drive up maintenance complexity.
3) Relatively short usage time. We're talking about something maybe less than say 48 hrs.
4) Be used for operations with goals well defined. i.e. not just patroling or idling.

If you made the armour heavy, then you may have to consider then environments the wearer have to operating in (wet, muddy, lose ground, whether building structure can bear the weight etc.)

Base defense will be another usage. They could sleep in their suits near stand by. And what will motivate more to protect the base which provides the ammo, parts, and power for your suit.
okay this seems more about a powered exoskeleton. Now lets go though the reason why a regular soldier would be suited to such, and by the way there are already such units in testing and development.
1) squads and units are not generally assembles in corps anymore. The days when maneuvering forces we counted in the hundreds of thousands went out of fashion after the first world war.
2) wear in a military with the proper logistical structure is not as big a issue as you think. If made modularly then worn parts can just be swapped regular wear is likely. but one thing to remember is the more built the lower the price.
3) power pack life spans are getting longer. modern infantry though are not totally reliant on base power though. Solar blankets, vehicle power generators power adapters are more and more available and more and more common as other electronic equipment has been added.
4) for a military powered exoskeleton. Infantry and support people lift ungodly weight for hours on end maneuvering and placing heavy shock on knees, shins, hips, spines, shoulders and spines, they wear 80+ pound combat loads and then additional personal protection. Artillery shells are heavy as hell and aviation maintenance people are loading 200 pound sidewinder missiles on jets all day.
they are always in training or maintaining of equipment.
Well that's what happened in the last thread I mentioned. People started blurring the lines between robots and mechs. Two totally different things. If your aim is solely the safety of the operator, yeah a robot is more practical. But everything else...
exactly. Which is why I prefer the term powered exoskeleton its not a suit of armor or a vehicle driven in its a mechanical harness designed to augment physical performance by reducing physical stress on limbs joints and muscle groups as well as adding additional physical strength allowing for enhanced combat performance.
Why is a terminator that does not quite cut the human out of the loop, but simply place the human part of the loop offsite at a remote location, be less achievable than a spartan?
well the critical issue is bandwidth. Remote operations need bandwidth. And in a modern military bandwidth is at a premium. Cyber security and info warfare are also critical factors that need to be addressed before we can get Arnie in the army.
Well there are these guys who beat you to the idea by 50 years!

That aside, the thrust of this thread sounds to me like people who want to enjoy a good war but are too cissy to want to get shot, maimed or even killed. In which case a small tractor drone is probably your best solution, so it can do all the dirty work while you sit safe warm and secure in a nice bunker, sipping bear and whistling misty.
Exterminate! Exterminate!
got to love a Dalek

I don't know about wanting a war, but frankly I don't think any sane person would want to have to face life and limb if there was a alternative. Our brave people in uniform, chose to do so. That's special and they deserve out gratitude. The best way we can show that is by making sure we have used every opportunity we can to keep them alive.
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
No doubt the tank will be cheaper, but a power armored soldier can do things that a tank can't do. The difference between power armor and a mech is that power armor is still about the size of a human, albeit more bulky. This allows the soldier to maneuver through human habitation much more easily than a tank or a mech. The corollary to that is it allows the soldier to do things that regular soldiers can do, except with more offensive and staying power.

For example, operations that used to require 2-3 squads of SEAL teams would only require 2 power armored soldiers. Operations that used to require an entire company of soldiers can now be done with only a squad of 5 power armored soldiers. Comparatively, the power armored soldiers would be easier to transport and easier to drop behind enemy lines.

Note that they would not normally be sent to hold the line against a tank squadron, but more operations like rescuing VIPs or taking out enemy command centers.

Those are just examples of things I can think of.
Well like one of the first things I said in this thread is it comes down to speed. To get that kind of mobility to give it an edge in battle comes from a power source and materials science that doesn't exist anywhere in the near future. If it's not survivable, it's not worth making it. The cheaper just as capable platform is what's going to win. Even if it did have an edge, it's probably going to be just too expensive compared to an existing platform that does the same job.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Speed is one advantage in terms of deployment, reaction and maneuver. But a powered armor even at its most advanced is still not able to do what a tank platoon can. Here is my thinking for a "Powered" Military.
Army/Marines
a user configurable powered exoskeleton that mates via load harness to body armor and combat pack. Can be configured to be used by Logistics or artillery with a simple load hook, by machine gunners with a steady cam style arm and backpack style high capacity magazine, by EOD with compatible bomb suit, and Marines with external buoyancy system.
accessories might also include a urban / mountain combat power winch to allow ease of climbing, anti tank weapons arm, parachute mounting.
a special operations powered suit specialized for lower profile wear with attachable powered swimming system like Jet boots, a parachute harness system that quickly attaches for ram air chutes or even a wing pack. Active camouflage options.
Naval/Air force powered exoskeleton. Specialized for loading and unloading of weapons on fighters, fueling of aircraft securing of cargo loads, maintenance of aircraft and fighting fires.

UGV evolution.
as it stands today, Unmanned ground vehicles are still infants compared to there airborne cousins.
mini Bots are the most advanced they come in a verity of forms, from simple cam balls to self propelled vehicles to armed weapons platforms. Infantry units are going to be adopting some of these and remote weapons are going to evolve particularly I feel in the class of self operated mortars.
scout UGVs are I feel going to really start to take off. And larger UGVs are already stating to shift from wheeled and tracked to walking around. As time goes by expect more versatile platforms.
manned armor. Tanks and AFVs are going to change in a major way sometime after 2040. I don't see hover tanks but multipeds walking tanks that will only have one or two has there crew. Lighter weight capable of traversing more extreme terrain they will be very very different from todays tanks.
 

armchairwarrior

New Member
well this company actually makes exoskeletons in japan.
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HAL-brain-controlled-cyberdyne-exoskeleton-ful-body-suit-nuclear-fukusima-Japan-e1350589234294.jpg

New HAL Exoskeleton: Brain-Controlled Full Body Suit to Be Used In Fukushima Cleanup

instead of using it for radiation protection, put body armor instead. owner creator of the suit is obviously a scifi fan. the suit system is called Hal and his company is named Cyberdyne lol.

been around for many years surprise you guys haven't heard of it. it is very similar to the US one the army is working on. but this one is actually on the market to civilians. I remember at one time this guy was selling it for close to a car price. but now seems he is only renting it.
 
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AssassinsMace

Brigadier
I've already heard about it. There are American companies developing them for industrial purposes and aiding people with disabilities. Still far away from combat capable.
 

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