PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[Delbert]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

It would be better I think if China build another nuclear powered submarine base in the east coast.

Since I do believe all of you are aware of the incident lately in the south China sea, when a US ship was conducting scan of the sea floor are which were blocked by 5 vessels from China.

I think what they have done has military purposes, they want to have accurate knowledge on what are the possible paths the submarines will take when they sail, and how to counter it.

So i suggest that China must have three nuclear submarine bases, to have more alternatives incase one of them was taken down by an enemy.

At least also possess 4-6 type 094 (Jin Class) or even more. To ensure that PLAN will always have nuclear ballistic strike submarines to utilize despite of having losses.

Remember: During a war we cannot say that we are 100% sure not to have any nuke submarine losses at all.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

They got a total of three bases that can hold nuclear submarines, not counting the shipyard that makes them. Two are in the North China sea and one in the South China sea.

I'm not sure if its a good idea to make one in the East China sea, like near Shanghai.

The waters are very shallow. Hence the area is very favorable for littoral style naval warfare. Small subs, FACs and the like. That's why you got the biggest concentration of PLAN SSKs and FACs in the East China sea.

Second, the water is always brown. Its not clear and its not clean. I wonder how much of that stuff can end up getting clogged on engine cooling systems. The bottom of the water must surely be muddy and soft, and it won't be well defined under sonar. That kind of increases your chances of hitting something on the bottom.

 

[Delbert]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I'm not sure if its a good idea to make one in the East China sea, like near Shanghai.

The waters are very shallow. Hence the area is very favorable for littoral style naval warfare. Small subs, FACs and the like. That's why you got the biggest concentration of PLAN SSKs and FACs in the East China sea.

Second, the water is always brown. Its not clear and its not clean. I wonder how much of that stuff can end up getting clogged on engine cooling systems. The bottom of the water must surely be muddy and soft, and it won't be well defined under sonar. That kind of increases your chances of hitting something on the bottom.

Oh I see... I am not familiar with the terrain.

Of course let us not include the shipyard that makes them. What I suggested was another additional base.

Can a nuclear submarine base be made hidden? Something like buried beneath the waters? So when the submarine sails, it wouldn't be noticed by anyone. Nor if the submarine was docked, it wouldn't still be noticed, for the base will be fully covered.

Like an underground base, but has an exit point to deep waters. :nana:

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

No, the stuff you are mentioning seems more science fiction.

 

[jackbh]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Submarine docks in underground cave actually exists since world war II. The Germans had some such underground cave sub docks. Some country still has them, and I think that China does have some hidden sub docks that blocks the detection from satalies in the sky when the sub set sail from the dock. Some even suggested China had build subs in caves so people can not see what they were building, but that might be just hear say. The fact is I have read about reports that such hidden sub docks was built in the new Hainan sub base for the very purpose of undetectable departure of the new nuke subs leaving from the base. Since the ocean around the base is deep water the sub can leave the hidden base and go straight to the deep water.

 

[bladerunner]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Submarine docks in underground cave actually exists since world war II. The Germans had some such underground cave sub docks. Some country still has them, and I think that China does have some hidden sub docks that blocks the detection from satalies in the sky when the sub set sail from the dock. Some even suggested China had build subs in caves so people can not see what they were building, but that might be just hear say. The fact is I have read about reports that such hidden sub docks was built in the new Hainan sub base for the very purpose of undetectable departure of the new nuke subs leaving from the base. Since the ocean around the base is deep water the sub can leave the hidden base and go straight to the deep water.

Apparently most front line Western Countries, most certainly America have the acoustic signature of all the Chinese submarines, and if some articles are to be believed, they have been snooping around the Chinese sub base area in their own subs etc without being detected. What this means is that the more experienced Americans with quieter subs have got the Chinese beat at submarine warfare caper.

 

[jackbh]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The Hainan sub base is in the South China Sea. I don't know what is front line western country? But definitely no European subs hangs out in the South China Sea. There was basically not much Sub activities in the South China Sea before China puts a sub base there. US has been recently cut snooping around there with a the impeccable, and that's so far really been all the data collecting that's been done from the US side. I definitely don't know any US sub activities in the South China Sea. Again, there is basically nothing before the Chinese put a sub base there.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Apparently most front line Western Countries, most certainly America have the acoustic signature of all the Chinese submarines, and if some articles are to be believed, they have been snooping around the Chinese sub base area in their own subs etc without being detected.

If the US already can put subs in there with impunity and have all the signatures they need, then why the hell would they have sent the Impeccable there?

That is one of the most absurd claims I have ever heard.

 

[bladerunner]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

If the US already can put subs in there with impunity and have all the signatures they need, then why the hell would they have sent the Impeccable there?

That is one of the most absurd claims I have ever heard.

Apparently sigs need updating from time to time, especially after they have undergone major renovation.
I came across these remarks some time ago. and if you read crobato's post, it mentions American subs have been patrolling the chinese coastline at will for
years.
This is not my opinion but merely views of Americans/ sailors I have viewed from here and there so perhaps someone more knowledgeable, like Popeye or Jeff Head, could comment on whether they are just idle boasts on the part of some American based posters.
Some things are obvious though, like the Chinese Subs are still noisy, and very few crews have enjoyed the experience of extended long range patrols, like their American counterparts.

 

[bladerunner]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The Hainan sub base is in the South China Sea. I don't know what is front line western country? But definitely no European subs hangs out in the South China Sea. There was basically not much Sub activities in the South China Sea before China puts a sub base there. US has been recently cut snooping around there with a the impeccable, and that's so far really been all the data collecting that's been done from the US side. I definitely don't know any US sub activities in the South China Sea. Again, there is basically nothing before the Chinese put a sub base there.

If You have'nt then I suggest you read Crobatos post of the 2/5, where the Fed of American scientists stated they regularly patrol Chinese waters (my words, you can betcha they would be hanging arround strategic passageways, picking up acoustic sigs).
I'm merely surmising here, in the reason why the Chinese haven't complained, is because they haven't been able to locate them.