PLAN Carrier Construction

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

the construction for PLAN first carrier are identical to the soviet approach,during the 1976, high resolution image of first soviet carrier under constuction in nikolayev ship yard appear in Janes defense magazine,(The CIA agent who leak the image was subsequently arrested),according to the commentator, the soviet shipyard has no experince in constructing such a large ship like aircraft carrier,decided to construct in modular fashion,section by section built separately ,and final assembly together in berg (?)

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

no_name said:

But if this was half scale then that would make it around 8m tall, and the width would suggest mid section of a larger carrier. That section don't look like it's for LHD.

So a section like this (to borrow an existing example) with maybe 3 cats :

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If you mean the elevator, most LHD has elevators as well. these are crucial mechanical components of a carrier and I think it would make a lot of sense for the PLA to test it on smaller vessels such as a LHD to prove and mature the techniques before using it on a full blown carrier. Liaoning's elevator is most likely a copy or a refurbished old Russian model, if they are to construct new/larger carriers, they will have to design from scratch.

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

usaf0314 said:

If you mean the elevator, most LHD has elevators as well. these are crucial mechanical components of a carrier and I think it would make a lot of sense for the PLA to test it on smaller vessels such as a LHD to prove and mature the techniques before using it on a full blown carrier. Liaoning's elevator is most likely a copy or a refurbished old Russian model, if they are to construct new/larger carriers, they will have to design from scratch.

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... The idea that the PLAN needs to "test" a new elevator design on a smaller vessel is kind of hilarious to be honest.

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

Bltizo said:

... The idea that the PLAN needs to "test" a new elevator design on a smaller vessel is kind of hilarious to be honest.

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and why would that be. the carrier elevator is quite different compare to your conventional industrial hydraulic elevator. Carrier elevators requires speed as well as reliability. China have never built anything like it, doesn't hurt to be punctual even for silly things such as an elevator. plus, broken elevator = bye bye to combat capability of a carrier

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

Well first off, why would they need to test a hydraulic elevator on a ship in the first place? They could easily build a rig on land.

Secondly, there are other countries in the world with far lower industrial and shipbuilding capability than China that have built ships with large hydraulic elevators without having needed to test it out (re: india, and any other country that's built a couple of small flattops)

Third of all, this is all under the assumption that the varyag's elevators were in full functioning order in the first place, and refitting it to liaoning, chances are they've learned quite a bit.

Lastly, you mentioned how a new carrier would need an elevator to be designed from scratch, suggesting that all new elevators need to be tested aboard a ship of some kind, which clearly isn't the case around the world (otherwise every new class of carrier or LHA/D should see a dedicated test vessel for its elevator). Basically I'm saying that large elevators aren't exactly an exotic technology which requires a testbed, even if they do endure more strenuous operational conditions than normal "industrial hydraulic elevators".

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

First off I don’t think this is a cargo ship, when you see cargo ships their internal “hanger” areas are maximised for transport and the shells are thin, this module clearly has a hanger area sized for a particular reason with much area around it

Mock-up? No chance, no one makes mock up these days it’s all done on computers, even the height of the sailors bunk beds are modelled on computers, you can do a virtual “walk around” on these software’s at these advanced warship builders use*

Why didn’t know one notice it before, well simple, because no one* seen it, I still believe as long as its within reason the Chinese authority’s allows these pictures out, as long as they don’t go too far

If it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it walks like a duck then the chances are that mostly likely it is a duck

It’s got a hanger, it’s clearly got an elevator, and then that means it’s a flat top warship, is it a LHD or a carrier? I would say it’s a very large LHD only because of the size of the hanger, the Chinese authorities have said the next carrier will be larger than Liaoning so on that basis I would say this is not a Liaoning derivative its most likely a massive LHD

This also makes sense; rumours have been around that Chinese would build a Wasp/America Class LHD, not a Mistral Class 20,000 ton class, just look at the Type 071 LPD its one huge LPD for a first attempt so it’s not out of the question

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

What carrier in the world has hangar elevator width of 7,5 meters, and positioned perpendicular to the length of the deck? I can't think of any, in the whole world. (kuznetsov's elevators are 15,5 m wide) Some smaller vessels like LHDs or micro carriers do have fairly narrow elevators but none of those ships are 50 meters wide (as this mystery section is) and none have those elevators positioned perpendicularly, they're all alongside the longitudinal axis.

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

Here you go, everyone -- enjoy some errant speculation via terrible manipulation of microsoft paint

Case 1: zoomed in, latest photos of the LHA/D/carrier at JNCX, showing the cross section of the bow section compared with the Google earth zoomed in photo taken in march, comparing common parts -- i.e.: possible elevator, possible trough on the port side of the ship (catapult?)

The beam of the module from GE measuring, is 51m. Much too small for a carrier, but far too big for an LHA



Case 2: photos of module identical to the JNCX, displaying the same elevator space, and "catapult" trough, as well as the hangar. At this stage it is uncertain whether these photos are recent or from around march, and they may or may not be from JNCX (could be from Dalian?)




All of these photos together, seem to share a common beam size, as well as hull cross section. Furthermore, they all seem to share the same hangar to hull ratio, as well as elevator to beam ratio. They also all seem to feature a "trough" for something such as a catapult (unless someone can direct me to a LHD or ski jump carrier with a similar recess on its flight deck).

I'm not claiming the thing currently getting put together at JNCX is a carrier -- that would be absolutely groundbreaking for us PLA watchers to have missed -- but the aerial photo showing the hull under construction does seem to show similarities to the modules we've seen, and appears to feature a line across its port side which may be for a catapult.
Waiting on more and clearer pictures.


Just for fun (bringing this study of a future PLAN CATOBAR CV back, with the highlighted section representing a possible area of the module):

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

gents as soon as this ship is officially ID-ed as an CV I will move these post to the PLAN carrier thread.


Ok I found this photo. It claims the red outlined portion is a catapult trench.

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Additionally a possible catapult trench has been identified, lending credence to postulation that this first all-Chinese carrier will be a refinement of the LIAONING/EX-VARYAG Soviet design, most likely designated 001A-class.

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I really feel we have a CV or LHA etc under construction....so post about that construction in this thread!

When I saw this

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I was convinced because Xinhuanet is a great source of news.

bd popeye