PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

bsdnf

Junior Member
Registered Member
(Fantasy: If US intervenes the war in Taiwan)

DAY ONE: Several stealth UUVs secretly emerged from the waters near Guam, launching hundreds of explosive drones. Soon, the entire base is covered with countless blasts, fires & mountainous dark smokes.
probably not a fantasy, seriously. UUV can even be launched drones underwater. Cross-medium drones are nothing new.43d8df17-49da4641bfa0882bff5589b662c9f2de.jpg
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Actually there is a much easier way to defend against drones. A much more older and effective way. Just have more AA gun units in these important bases. WW2 era AA gun batteries will completely pulverize these slow drones.

The reason why bases like this are so vulnerable now is because all militaries have given up on AA guns and focused on SAM missiles. Those SAMs are great against fast flying planes and cruise missiles, but these are too few and too valuable and cannot fight against cheap drones.

But AA guns are practically designed for these kinds of drones. Yes, you will need to have a lot more manpower to man these AA guns. But radar and AI controlled AA guns can be developed.

I expect AA guns to make a comeback in militaries again to combat the drone threat

Rather than weapons, I would be more concerned with the detecting, targeting and tracking segments of the whole equation.

Those are actually the much harder parts than actually intercepting those drone swarms with soft-kill and hard-kill weapons.
 

Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
In addition to lasers and microwaves, using high-speed drone ohysical collision to intercept drones is also one of the solutions. CETC exhibited the intercept drone at the Zhuhai Air Show in 2022. It is part of the Sky Dome/AUICS-3000 anti-drone system, which includes distributed sensors, EW jamming, laser and drone interception, and command systems.
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This is it right here. A hard-kill system coupled with soft-kill measures. This is what is needed.

Thanks to today's event, the world will take anti-drone measures seriously. We will see more system like this in the future.
 

montyp165

Senior Member
Base hardening alone would probably deter most attempts at reproducing these kinds of attacks. The problem here for Russia was that no one, not even NATO, ever thought these bases could be reached because they were nested so deep into Russian territory, so Russia never invested in hardening them.

Distance is not major factor in this case.

Those drone swarm attacks were conducted where the launch platforms (modified/retrofitted trucks) were situated less than 10 kilometers from their target airbases - Literally up-against-your-face type of distances.

No amount of distance from the frontlines can guarantee against such kinds of infiltration sabotage attacks. Such types of attacks can only be conducted with 内鬼s involved from deep within.



FPV drones similar to the ones used in the attacks are widely available on the consumer market all across China. And to be honest, the enemy agents won't really need to smuggle explosives (or equipment required to make them) across national borders either - Those things can be obtained domestically. Even if the explosives are harder to be obtained by suspicious/non-related individuals and entities in China than in Russia, such possibilities can never be discounted.

Unfortunately, I'd say that similar types of FPV drones and their payloads used in the present attack on Russian strategic air force bases can be obtained and made completely domestically.

As for exclusion zones for heavy civilian trucks - It would be rather unrealistic if those sensitive/critical sites themselves are located near regions and locations where heavy civilian truck movements are common (e.g. sea/inland ports, freight train stations, industrial estates, major artery roadways/expressways, etc) in the first place.



As dystopian as it sounds - Not just a state-of-emergency, but literal Police State measures would be required to effectively combat against such adventures from enemies hidden deep within.

Of course, full mobilization and cooperation from all levels of the society is fundamental.
Key thing is as always fundamental systems redundancy, of a level that no action by the enemy even at their most favorable combination of circumstances changes the course and outcome whatsoever, and this also means being able to grind down the enemy strategically in all aspects down to their backyards as well. This is what I mean when saying China vs US is more like WW2 US facing Imperial Japan, but with even greater strategic/industrial strength to back it up.
 

Wrought

Senior Member
Registered Member
Rather than weapons, I would be more concerned with the detecting, targeting and tracking segments of the whole equation.

Those are actually the much harder parts than actually intercepting those drone swarms with soft-kill and hard-kill weapons.

That's not a new problem at all. Terrorist attacks historically used different platforms, but the underlying requirement to organize a group of people to commit a coordinated attack on enemy soil is identical. The answer is the same as ever: police/surveillance/etc so you either catch them during the planning stages or deter their ability to plan an effective attack altogether. The more complicated a plan, the more likely one or more steps goes wrong on the day of.

If anything, China is probably the best country in the world when it comes to preventing those kind of threats.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Distance is not major factor in this case.

Those drone swarm attacks were conducted where the launch platforms (modified/retrofitted trucks) were situated less than 10 kilometers from their target airbases - Literally up-against-your-face type of distances.

No amount of distance from the frontlines can guarantee against such kinds of infiltration sabotage attacks. Such types of attacks can only be conducted with 内鬼s involved from deep within.



FPV drones similar to the ones used in the attacks are widely available on the consumer market all across China. And to be honest, the enemy agents won't really need to smuggle explosives (or equipment required to make them) across national borders either - Those things can be obtained domestically. Even if the explosives are harder to be obtained by suspicious/non-related individuals and entities in China than in Russia, such possibilities can never be discounted.

Unfortunately, I'd say that similar types of FPV drones and their payloads used in the present attack on Russian strategic air force bases can be obtained and made completely domestically.

As for exclusion zones for heavy civilian trucks - It would be rather unrealistic if those sensitive/critical sites themselves are located near regions and locations where heavy civilian truck movements are common (e.g. sea/inland ports, freight train stations, industrial estates, major artery roadways/expressways, etc) in the first place.



As dystopian as it sounds - Not just a state-of-emergency, but literal Police State measures would be required to effectively combat against such adventures from enemies hidden deep within.

Of course, full mobilization and cooperation from all levels of the society is fundamental.
There have to be extreme measures taken to ensure 100% internal state stability. Every highway movement including motorcycle can be tracked with traffic cameras. Trucks can be required to be digitally geofenced with a forcible engine shutoff if deviating from route without approval.

Human movement can be tracked the same way with traffic cameras for motorcycles and extensive use of biometric IDs for travel registration. Expect every single person in China, including immigrants and short term visitors, to be entered in a biometric database and to tie it not just to 身份证 number but to immutable biological traits.
 

4Tran

New Member
Registered Member
I recently saw a video by a Taiwanese pro-independence supporter talking about the advantages of Taiwan acquiring nuclear weapons, and then I saw this article in the Taipei Times:

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NUCLEAR TAIWAN

And so, we must raise this question again for Taiwan: should the nation acquire nuclear weapons? The nuclear issue has acquired new urgency since Ukraine’s failure to enter the NATO nuclear umbrella and to keep its own nuclear weapons was undoubtedly a factor in Russia’s decision to invade. As Lindell Lucy observed in the News Lens last year, it is utterly futile to attempt to deter a much larger, nuclear-armed adversary like China with only conventional weapons.

The urgency of this issue has grown because not only do nukes enable small states to deter large ones, but wargames show it is quite likely that a war over Taiwan between the US and the PRC will lead to use of nuclear weapons, perhaps only as a demonstration. However, these wargames all assume that the US will retain its alliance system in Asia, an assumption that is rapidly growing perilous as Trump continues to trash longstanding relationships with regional powers.

In the Taiwan scenario, is the PRC more likely to use nuclear weapons if its adversaries do not possess them? As Gregory Weaver noted in a 2023 piece at the Atlantic Council, “the far larger nuclear arsenal which China is building will include a growing array of theater-range systems, including systems with sufficient accuracy to make effective military use of low-yield nuclear weapons.”

Such tactical use abilities suggest that PRC planners may consider at least a demonstration use, simply to show the US that it is willing to use them, deterring the US from entering the conflict. Tactical abilities also permit the PRC to use them in a limited way. What if the PRC simply decides to weather the (feckless and temporary) international condemnation, nukes a Taiwan city, and demands the island surrender?

How can we respond?

Taiwan needs to have this discussion, with the US and other friendly powers. For example, though Americans constantly call for Taiwan to do more, developing nuclear weapons, by demonstrating resolve on Taiwan’s part, may allow the US to conclude that it does not need to support Taiwan. They may thus increase the possibility of war. They may also chill support for Taiwan among other regional powers, who can legitimately fear their use to support Republic of China (ROC) territorial claims. Their mere development may provoke a PRC invasion.

In the 1950s and 60s the US placed nuclear weapons on Taiwan to deter PRC adventurism. Time to at least talk about developing our own deterrent.

I don’t think the Trump Administration is going to share.

So my question is "Are people really this stupid?"

China has two well publicized red lines regarding Taiwan. The first is Taiwan declaring independence, and the second is Taiwan acquiring nuclear weapons. Both of these will automatically lead to war, and of the two, the latter is far more suicidal. Taiwan being independent is a serious blow to the CPC so the PLA will fight tooth and nail to prevent it. Things might get very serious if China were to lose, but there's a good chance that the conflict will stay conventional. But Taiwan getting nuclear weapons is a threat to the survival of China as a nation so China is far more likely to turn the whole island into a nuclear wasteland. I just get the feeling that too many observers outside of China think of emotionally satisfying solutions without ever considering how other players will react to said solutions. (Also note the entire American Info-Pacific strategy.)
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I recently saw a video by a Taiwanese pro-independence supporter talking about the advantages of Taiwan acquiring nuclear weapons, and then I saw this article in the Taipei Times:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



So my question is "Are people really this stupid?"

China has two well publicized red lines regarding Taiwan. The first is Taiwan declaring independence, and the second is Taiwan acquiring nuclear weapons. Both of these will automatically lead to war, and of the two, the latter is far more suicidal. Taiwan being independent is a serious blow to the CPC so the PLA will fight tooth and nail to prevent it. Things might get very serious if China were to lose, but there's a good chance that the conflict will stay conventional. But Taiwan getting nuclear weapons is a threat to the survival of China as a nation so China is far more likely to turn the whole island into a nuclear wasteland. I just get the feeling that too many observers outside of China think of emotionally satisfying solutions without ever considering how other players will react to said solutions. (Also note the entire American Info-Pacific strategy.)
Any attempt will lead to a disarming first strike.
 

bsdnf

Junior Member
Registered Member
I recently saw a video by a Taiwanese pro-independence supporter talking about the advantages of Taiwan acquiring nuclear weapons, and then I saw this article in the Taipei Times:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



So my question is "Are people really this stupid?"

China has two well publicized red lines regarding Taiwan. The first is Taiwan declaring independence, and the second is Taiwan acquiring nuclear weapons. Both of these will automatically lead to war, and of the two, the latter is far more suicidal. Taiwan being independent is a serious blow to the CPC so the PLA will fight tooth and nail to prevent it. Things might get very serious if China were to lose, but there's a good chance that the conflict will stay conventional. But Taiwan getting nuclear weapons is a threat to the survival of China as a nation so China is far more likely to turn the whole island into a nuclear wasteland. I just get the feeling that too many observers outside of China think of emotionally satisfying solutions without ever considering how other players will react to said solutions. (Also note the entire American Info-Pacific strategy.)
Guess why the United States the withdrawal of nuclear weapons in 1972 and tried every means to prevent Taiwan from having nuclear weapons since then? Because at that time, mainland could and would undoubtedly strike first before Taiwan developed it's nuclear power.

When containment measures fail, don't continue to do it anyway, or others will find out that you have no real ability. Americans at that time had such wisdom, but the Taiwanese independence activists today don’t even have it.
 
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