PLA Small arms


AZaz09dude

Junior Member
Registered Member
I thought the ZTZ-99s and Type 04As still mount the SGMT as the coaxial machine gun? The SGMT fires the 7.62x54. Beside sniper rifles, I don't recall any machine guns or other weapons fielded by the PLA using 7.62 NATO.
QJT5.8

 

AZaz09dude

Junior Member
Registered Member
Please don't tell me ZTZ-99 uses 5.8mm coaxial MGs. 5.8mm rounds probably can't even penetrate Level IV and Level III+ body armors.
It seems like they use DVC12 tungsten AP, which still isn't great considering even newer ESAPIs are rated to stop M995. Of course, even the 7.62x54 steel core AP it replaced is going to have just as trouble against modern body armor, especially at range.
 

Maxef208

New Member
Registered Member
Please don't tell me ZTZ-99 uses 5.8mm coaxial MGs. 5.8mm rounds probably can't even penetrate Level IV and Level III+ body armors.
It's the "heavy" round though right? I would assume that has better penetration than the version of 5.8mm meant for rifle use.
 

Josh Luo

Senior Member
Registered Member
It seems like they use DVC12 tungsten AP, which still isn't great considering even newer ESAPIs are rated to stop M995. Of course, even the 7.62x54 steel core AP it replaced is going to have just as trouble against modern body armor, especially at range.
That's why the 8.6mm LM would have been a great candidate replacing the 7.62x54R, except the SGMT would need to have thicker barrels. Since China is also importing 8.6mm sniper rifles from Russia to equip elite sniper units, the 8.6mm LM could have become the new standard full-power cartridge for GPMGs, sniper rifles, vehicle mounted MGs, and helicopter-mounted MGs.
 

Josh Luo

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's the "heavy" round though right? I would assume that has better penetration than the version of 5.8mm meant for rifle use.
But nothing comparable to the 7.62 full power cartridges (NATO and Russian), which simply have the sheer mass to push their weights through multiple thin steel plates. Even a lead core .30-06 M2 Ball (M1 Garand ammo) would likely have better penetration against body armors compared to the 5.8m heavy ball.
 

AZaz09dude

Junior Member
Registered Member
But nothing comparable to the 7.62 full power cartridges (NATO and Russian), which simply have the sheer mass to push their weights through multiple thin steel plates. Even a lead core .30-06 M2 Ball (M1 Garand ammo) would likely have better penetration against body armors compared to the 5.8m heavy ball.
This is flat out wrong. Lead core 7.62 full power cartridges have very poor armor penetration characteristics. Against steel, rounds like M193 are able to outperform them through sheer velocity. Due to its lead core .308 ball won't go through NIJ Level III UHMWPE while M855 will. Hell, it won't even perforate an ECH. Forget about comparing it to hardened steel core 5.8x42mm DVP-88.
 
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