PLA Small arms


Kejora

Junior Member
Registered Member
Honestly, I'm not sure how valid the 6.8 bullet is. The increased weight and the plastic and all.
I'm not referring their new 6.8mm ammunition, just regular 6.5mm Creedmore. Technically tou could turn 7.65mm NATO Machine gun into 6.5mm by changing the barrel (very easy for machine gun) and probably a new bolt carrier to compansate for the lighter recoil. Since the case is based on 7.62mm nato you can use the same bolt head and belt.
6.5-Creedmoor-vs-.308-Winchester.jpg
 

MwRYum

Major
So China currently developing new machine gun in four different caliber:
  • New 5.8mm LMG with mag fed capability
  • New 7.62mm GPMG
  • New 8.6mm GPMG
  • New 12.7 HMG
Don't you think this is a bit overkill?
If they've to introduce a new GPMG that sits between HMG and SAW (the 5.56mm), introducing it in 7.62mm NATO or .338 LM makes no difference because both are new caliber for the PLA anyway.

The QJZ89 HMG is due for a replacement.

The Type 88 maybe using 5.8mm but it was a failed experiment - too large for SAW and not as good as GPMG that needs to be - and the QBZ-95-1 series is getting phased out so a new SAW is in order.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Actually, for the plastic part, if I remember correctly, Textron and General Dynamics are doing that, and Textron is pushing for caseless ammunition. Sig Sauer is offering the brass version.
I am not sure you can call Textron ammo caseless ammo... it’s telescoping ammo with a polymer case that still requires ejection... the Sig one is a brass-steel hybrid, a brass body with a steel base where the rim is and the primer sits
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The 5.8mm and 12.7mm have high chance of being adopted since there are lot of photos of them being trialled. But the 7.62mm and 8.6mm are very elusive and haven't been spotted so far.
Also I'm surprised they didn't choose to develop 6.5mm weapons considering the hype about that caliber in the US.
If I was the guy in charge of PLA small arms those weapons wouldn’t be in the wild for a while as if anything they would at the moment be in double evaluation. First for potential adoption then for competition. The PLA uses 7.62x54 Russian this depending on loading can be a very long range caliber 8.6mm is also such so I would want to know if I could replace the former with the latter or mix them. If the latter then what is the right mix? Do I use 7.62 for all my forces but keep 8.6mm to mountain troops?
If 7.62 NATO that is a whole other can of worms. But still would want to see which might be better suited to issue. Weight is a factor to. 8.6mm full brass is going to weigh more than the 8.6 Norma that the US is looking at thats polymer cased.
However it should be remembered that the Chinese don’t adopt everything they develop. Like the US and Russia they produce whole lines of weapons never meant for PLA troopers but instead for export. The US is looking into 8.6mm MGs when the US government looks at something other armies allies and adversaries have a habit of taking an interest.

6.5mm creedmor has a taken a place in socom primarily as an alternative to 7.62x51mm in that it’s a almost drop in softer shooting longer range chambering for the same weapons. Better suited for asymmetric conflict. What this translates to is that rifles like SCAR H, sniper rifles like the MRAD, machine guns like the Mk48 mod 1 can be rechambered for this cartridge have a double the potential to hit the target 1.5 times the effective range. Yet again this is a converted existing weapon. So it favors existing systems in the same rifle class.
6.8mm is a different story it can be a rechamber SIG’s is built as such. It’s really focused less on range and more trying to get the right mix of weight to power. The ammo types are trying to get it so that the package weighs about as much as a 7.62 carbine yet ammo closer to 5.56 the main loss here being a 20 round magazine vs the 30 of a 5.56. This is as the ammo is volumetrically larger but the plastic or rather composite polymer or metallic cases ( Sig is a mix of brass steel and nickel, Textron Is cased telescopic polymer based on a surgical grade polymer, GD is conventional but in a polymer case with brass base) are 30-40% lighter than comparable brass cased 7.62. The main want is to buy back 600-800 meters effective range as well as more effective antibody armor at infantry 0-500 meters.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
PLA has already effectively eliminated 7.62x54R from most frontline units
Most not all.
it has some advantages here and there. NATO is better for infantry generally. Yet for a long time PLA armored forces still used it in MGs. The original poster didn’t specify which version was getting worked on.
 

Josh Luo

Senior Member
Registered Member
So China currently developing new machine gun in four different caliber:
  • New 5.8mm LMG with mag fed capability
  • New 7.62mm GPMG
  • New 8.6mm GPMG
  • New 12.7 HMG
Don't you think this is a bit overkill?
Do we know any potential Chinese 8.6mm GPMG? Maybe the SGMT coaxial machine gun mounted on the ZTZ-99 and Type 04A could be modified (say thicker barrel and rifle lining) to fire the 8.6mm round. A .338LM fired from a 720mm barrel (muzzle velocity @ 3,000 fps) would be absolutely unstoppable under 1.2km range.
 

Josh Luo

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's been eliminated from use in modern production PLA armored vehicles too
I thought the ZTZ-99s and Type 04As still mount the SGMT as the coaxial machine gun? The SGMT fires the 7.62x54. Beside sniper rifles, I don't recall any machine guns or other weapons fielded by the PLA using 7.62 NATO.
 

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