PLA Small arms


ansy1968

Junior Member
Registered Member
Non free-floating barrel, hi-MOA scope, not paired with specialized precision sniping ammo (especially that, something which China finally addressed in the last decade or so; y'know, Soviet's SVD paired with 7N1 to begin with); what gives QBU-88 the notoriety was a hostage incident in Nanjing, which a SWAT sharpshooter shot and injured the hostage instead of the suspect.

QBU-88 reputation was bad enough that when CS/LR4 entered into service proper a few years (<3 years if I remember correctly), people cry manly tears because China finally shown that it can make proper sniper rifle system (sub-MOA accruacy, at least in the zone of Remington Model 700 series grade) in serial production quantity.
Hi MwRYum,

CS/LR4 perform superbly at MARAWI siege.
 

EdgeOfEcho

New Member
Registered Member
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Saw this on Weibo. New pics, a old pic, and some info on the new HMG.

Rough translation of the text: the new HMG has become significantly lighter, the overall weight (gun, tripod plus full box of ammo) is at 25.8 kg. This lightweightness plus the low recoil means it is highly mobile on the battlefield, thus the gun is equipped with a bipod. Furthermore, there is a 20 round box magazine designed for the gun for ease of reload. So that when soldiers are assaulting enemy positions, the HMG can be deployed rapidly and provide cover fire.

Very interesting information, but not sure if it is true. Some people on Weibo think the 25.8 kg weight is gun's weight with tripod but not with ammunition. Others doubt how the 20 round magazine will be inserted into the gun. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

My observation and thought:
The bottom of the gun seems like there is a magazine well to fit a box magazine, I am not sure what the block looking thing in front of the trigger guard is. Maybe it is a release flap for the big magazine? If the box magazine is fed from the bottom of the gun, then this may explain the 20 round design, since having a higher magazine capacity will mean the magazine is too long to have the weapon deployed using bipod.

Also with regards to the weight of the gun, 25.8 kg with 100 round ammo box may be possible? I remember reading somewhere that PLA developed a new type of lightweight 50 cal bullet for this HMG, if a 50 cal bullet weights 50g per bullet, then 100 rounds is 5kg, so the gun with tripod weights 20 kg? Maybe that is possible. Perhaps PLA's new 50 cal bullet is much lighter than 50g per bullet. We'll see.
 

MwRYum

Major
Are there any data or news about its uses during then? I want to see how well it performed.
I don't recall anything in English language but CS/LR4 has been with Chinese sniper team in a few of those international sniping competitions in Europe over the last decade, using host-provided ammo (CS/LR4 takes 7.62mm NATO, which means now China also use 7.62mm NATO in their precision sniping ammo) with quite favorable results (consider when they first took part back in 2008 or so, they ended up dead last);

And there was that 1st combat kill in Malawi in Philippines, China supplied a cache of infantry weapons to Philippines during that major DAESH/Abu Sayyaf incursion in Malawi. Philippine forces reportedly sniped the Abu Sayyaf leader dead with a Chinese-supplied sniper rifle, and the CS/LR4A was the only sniper rifle model supplied at that time.
 

MwRYum

Major
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Saw this on Weibo. New pics, a old pic, and some info on the new HMG.

Rough translation of the text: the new HMG has become significantly lighter, the overall weight (gun, tripod plus full box of ammo) is at 25.8 kg. This lightweightness plus the low recoil means it is highly mobile on the battlefield, thus the gun is equipped with a bipod. Furthermore, there is a 20 round box magazine designed for the gun for ease of reload. So that when soldiers are assaulting enemy positions, the HMG can be deployed rapidly and provide cover fire.

Very interesting information, but not sure if it is true. Some people on Weibo think the 25.8 kg weight is gun's weight with tripod but not with ammunition. Others doubt how the 20 round magazine will be inserted into the gun. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

My observation and thought:
The bottom of the gun seems like there is a magazine well to fit a box magazine, I am not sure what the block looking thing in front of the trigger guard is. Maybe it is a release flap for the big magazine? If the box magazine is fed from the bottom of the gun, then this may explain the 20 round design, since having a higher magazine capacity will mean the magazine is too long to have the weapon deployed using bipod.

Also with regards to the weight of the gun, 25.8 kg with 100 round ammo box may be possible? I remember reading somewhere that PLA developed a new type of lightweight 50 cal bullet for this HMG, if a 50 cal bullet weights 50g per bullet, then 100 rounds is 5kg, so the gun with tripod weights 20 kg? Maybe that is possible. Perhaps PLA's new 50 cal bullet is much lighter than 50g per bullet. We'll see.
Looks like old style optic, new polymer ammo box, can go bipod and...perhaps light enough to do it like Kord, do hipfire?
 

ansy1968

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't recall anything in English language but CS/LR4 has been with Chinese sniper team in a few of those international sniping competitions in Europe over the last decade, using host-provided ammo (CS/LR4 takes 7.62mm NATO, which means now China also use 7.62mm NATO in their precision sniping ammo) with quite favorable results (consider when they first took part back in 2008 or so, they ended up dead last);

And there was that 1st combat kill in Malawi in Philippines, China supplied a cache of infantry weapons to Philippines during that major DAESH/Abu Sayyaf incursion in Malawi. Philippine forces reportedly sniped the Abu Sayyaf leader dead with a Chinese-supplied sniper rifle, and the CS/LR4A was the only sniper rifle model supplied at that time.
Hi MwRYum,

Yup , Its a great advertisement of China sniper rifle, I think we had an article here during our conversation with PLAWOLF, some critic of President Duterte said that he exaggerated to please the Chinese, but from some military men I knew, the accuracy is superb and they say that China provide special ammo that extend its range, since Im not a military man maybe you can provide the ammo info.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Non free-floating barrel, hi-MOA scope, not paired with specialized precision sniping ammo (especially that, something which China finally addressed in the last decade or so; y'know, Soviet's SVD paired with 7N1 to begin with); what gives QBU-88 the notoriety was a hostage incident in Nanjing, which a SWAT sharpshooter shot and injured the hostage instead of the suspect.

QBU-88 reputation was bad enough that when CS/LR4 entered into service proper a few years (<3 years if I remember correctly), people cry manly tears because China finally shown that it can make proper sniper rifle system (sub-MOA accruacy, at least in the zone of Remington Model 700 series grade) in serial production quantity.
Oh and don't forget the bull pup design. Bull pups have heavy trigger pulls because of the length of the connection between the trigger and hammer. Whoever designed it, cleary didn't put too much thought into it.
 

hkky

New Member
Registered Member
Every rifle behaves differently, even if made by the same manufacturing process. Small variations, mostly the barrel leads to small differences in the vibration behavior and influence the point of impact (where the bullet hit). If you look at slow motion videos of a rifle barrel during discharge you'd notice the bow. That is why serious shooters load their own ammo (ensure consistent brass weight, brass concentricity, length, power charge, bullet weight, etc) to hit the most stable portion of the of harmonic vibration. Even my cheap $400 Savage rifle can hit 1/4 MOA at 100 meters with the right load and barrel temperature (5 rounds go through the same hole). If I use off the shelf ammo the rifle shoots like 1 MOA. If you are military sniper or shoot in competition you'd assemble your own ammo. So the rile is only part of the picture.

Bull pop geometry does not lead to heavy trigger pull. In a sniper rifle you want the trigger pull to be crisp and light. Bull pop linkage does not lends to a crispy pull because of the slack in the linkages. The trigger has large travel before hammer release is triggered. Military rifle have heavy trigger pulls > 6 lbs while competition shooters/sniper likely have theirs at <1 lbs. A good trigger can cost just as much as a cheap rifle.

Even the old Type-85 shot pretty well in this video,
. They also have a video on Remington 700 out to 1100 yards.
 

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