PLA Next Generation Main Battle Tank

hkvaryag

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The pic on the left is a screencap of the very first video published by Norinco showing what eventually became this lighter tank. It has all the key features, including the 6 road wheels and overall shape of hull and turret.
View attachment 156910
May be not. Lets notice the satellite photo of the 3/9 March practice. There are two MBTs and the larger one also have a very large turret 1753680318101.png
 

doggydogdo

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Type 99A is a design stemming from the weaker technological ages of China, no matter how people like to say it is highly modified and "westernised" compared to the original Type 99. It still uses old soviet AZ autoloader with no thought given to modern drone warfare and urban warfare. Also as I said advanced armor is still required to hold chokepoints and speerhead assaults etc even for expeditionary warfare which the 99A no longer suffices for. In fact I believe most equipment stemming from the age of "小步快跑" or catching up to western standards should be phased out of service or moved to second/third/training duty as soon as convenient. As the PLA is currently both financially and technologically capable of producing top of the line AFVs even compared to top western counterparts and hence should do so(as they are rumored to be doing already).

tl;dr I believe 99A is a product from a time where Chinese technological prowess have not reached world class level yet and hence not suitable for further major modifications due to compromises taken with the design.
What do autoloaders with thoughts given to modern drone and urban warfare look like? Also, Type 99A is pretty comparable to other MBT, what compromises are you talking about?
 

Gloire_bb

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What do autoloaders with thoughts given to modern drone and urban warfare look like? Also, Type 99A is pretty comparable to other MBT, what compromises are you talking about?
Ideal autoloader will probably mix both.
It shouldn't be bustle type, as it's indeed easily targeted.
It shouldn't be the vanilla carousel type, as it's unsafe.

Some type of internal/hull autoloader, with it's own internal armor and pressure drop directed downwards(through the bottom) is probably ideal.
Even more so, if we can split ammo into sections, to make sure that partial ammo combustion won't remove tank from action.

Between carousel and bustle, however, it's almost certainly bustle. Tank should be the safest place for the crew, otherwise tank becomes largely combat ineffective when under fire.
 

Tomboy

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What do autoloaders with thoughts given to modern drone and urban warfare look like? Also, Type 99A is pretty comparable to other MBT, what compromises are you talking about?
I was referring to the overall design not taking into account modern warfare also AZ style autoloaders with no place except the crew compartment for additional ammo are well known for being death traps and also injuries if not carefully handled. The autoloader also limits penetrator size that arguably isn't easily solved with modification as an example T-90M with a modified autoloader still cannot accommodate the newer Vacuum rounds. Type 99A's turret IMO don't seem to be designed for APS installation(Unless there is a radar mounted somewhere specifically to spot top attack munitions because the ones seen mounted around the turret seems to be mostly foward looking) in the first place and hence the weird positioning of the radars that initially led people to thought this was only a test article instead of a service vehicle. Type 99A also to my knowledge has not emphasised side protection as much as western MBTs due to being designed for cold war style confrontation in the fields. Engine is no longer(if ever) top of the line for the time it was built since Chinese engine technology back in the 2000s were still far from catching up with European/American technology(Although from I heard the engine/transmission was later improved in terms of reliability). I don't think the latest batch seen at Baotou(the ones with APS) had any changes to the FCS system since the original 99A only had second generation thermals. Type 99A is not known to have gone through any armor changes since it entered service and with the speed that material science advanced in China post 2010 and the state of Chinese material science back in the 2000s when it was designed likely meant Type 99A's armor technology was not even the top of the line in the world even at the time it was designed since China just wasn't quite there yet back then. Type 99A was also not designed with the modularity that modern tanks such as the ZTQ-15 and this new 40-ton MBT is designed with hence making comprehensive upgrades much more difficult. Type 99A IMO is "Good enough" for today although getting increasingly obsolete but upgrading it to be great for the future will require some extensive redesigns and not just simply slapping on an APS and calling it a day. If the rumors are true for a new heavy tank in development than I guess PLAGF decided that major 99A upgrades are less cost efficient than simply designing a new vehicle from the ground up with modern technology.
1753690728267.png
 

Gloire_bb

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Type 99A's turret IMO don't seem to be designed for APS installation(Unless there is a radar mounted somewhere specifically to spot top attack munitions because the ones seen mounted around the turret seems to be mostly foward looking) in the first place and hence the weird positioning of the radars that initially led people to thought this was only a test article instead of a service vehicle.
AESA tends to have +-60 degree coverage. They see quite a lot upwards, and in any case, last piece should be on the roof.
I.e. if there's none, it isn't a 99A limitation, it's one coming from APS.
Type 99A also to my knowledge has not emphasised side protection as much as western MBTs due to being designed for cold war style confrontation in the fields.
May I ask where this knowledge comes from?
Base side armor of all modern western MBTs is below 2" steel plate. If there are composites, they're on the screen, and often with incomplete coverage even for their sectors (same illness as 3 stupid squares on T-72B/T-90A).
Much less anything significant, in Ukraine they were (yet again) found to be vulnerable to 152mm shell misses. Heavy splinters literally get through.

As for anything else, there's a reason behind brick meme.
 

Tomboy

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May I ask where this knowledge comes from?
Base side armor of all modern western MBTs is below 2" steel plate.
Much less anything significant, in Ukraine they were (yet again) found to be vulnerable to 152mm shell misses. Heavy splinters literally get through.

As for anything else, there's a reason behind brick meme.
You are correct for hull side armor but the turret armor is much thicker and, in some cases, includes composites like in the Leopard(Which I think even has a bit of composite on the hull) and Abrams which I don't believe is the case for the Type 99A. There are good reasons for which designs for 4th gen MBTs like Object 195 and 477 includes thick hull side armor as well as some western designs. Type 99A also do not have any urban combat kit although this should be a cheap fix by just adapting VT-4's kit.
 

Gloire_bb

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Well, that's true.

But overall none of modern MBTs are even remotely adequate to the updated conditions, and only some prototypes from eurosatory show promise (my personal favorite is second installment of KF51).

Nations commiting now to current MBTs in their new updated versions seem to me ordering pre dreadnoughts, when time calls for a fast battleship.

New Chinese LMBT, at least from details we see, is somewhere in-between. Right pieces, but much like armata, there are now significant elements of retro futurism.
The very focus away from cold war Fulda clash is a big step forward, however, and being smaller/lighter is a significant advantage in it's own right.
 
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qwerty3173

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You are correct for hull side armor but the turret armor is much thicker and, in some cases, includes composites like in the Leopard(Which I think even has a bit of composite on the hull) and Abrams which I don't believe is the case for the Type 99A. There are good reasons for which designs for 4th gen MBTs like Object 195 and 477 includes thick hull side armor as well as some western designs. Type 99A also do not have any urban combat kit although this should be a cheap fix by just adapting VT-4's kit.
Adding advanced ERA plates is much more effective than the small amounts of side armor western tanks can provide, and can be done easily by any welder.
 

Rina

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Its not a proper upgrade unless it also incorporates cope cage as an integral element of the tank. Any Tank without a cope cage is no longer relevant for the modern battlefield. But most tanks have these cages as a tack-on instead of integral design elements.
Based on the principles of safety and aesthetics, we may not see any additional armor installed in the parade tank queue.
May be not. Lets notice the satellite photo of the 3/9 March practice. There are two MBTs and the larger one also have a very large turret View attachment 156913
The huge polygonal turret does not look like a ZTZ99A
 
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