PLA Navy news, pics and videos
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lcloo
Captain
Correction:-Deep sea submersible Jiaolong has conducted its first dive in the western Pacific.
大西洋 is Chinese name for Atlantic Ocean.
南大西洋 is South Atlantic Ocean.
by78
General
Thanks for the correction.
Jeez, I guess they really do copy everything!
These are some pretty interesting statements, even taken at face value in their machine-translated form. However, I am inclined to interpret certain portions slightly differently.
Regarding the first point, I think the machine translation paints the image that PLAN's investments into unmanned vessels have yet to bear much fruit; which I would strongly contest. Particularly in the ASW/USW world, the PLAN has already stood up a number of pretty impressive capabilities due to their autonomous systems development programs. Additionally, I believe the translation skews the semantic "center of gravity" away from (what I view to be) the intended focal point and more towards the "we will see [...] results this year," element. I think a slightly more prudent interpretation of the quote (very literally, then with syntactic sugar thrown in) would be something along the lines of:
or
As for the second point, I am fairly confident that the machine translation errs by interpreting "后续型号" to mean a successor. While I suppose it has been a while since I got out of the .mil world, I would be very surprised if a brand new blue chip procurement program kicked off in that time - especially to succeed the (practically brand new) 055s. It would be remarkably out of character for the PLAN to suddenly sunset a modern, highly capable platform with a substantial industrial and technological ecosystem to support it, a (seemingly) robust training pipeline, ample accommodations for future capability upgrades, and to do so after expending the time and effort to develop and refine employment concepts.
What I find vastly more likely is that pop3 is speaking of a follow on variant of the 055 design, which would indeed jive with the PLA's tendency to procure an initial batch of new platforms/systems to work out any major kinks, identify elements of the design meriting revision, and generate sailor experience and feedback. Plus, it is very much PLA M.O. to follow up with a refined variant incorporating these modifications, which is then procured at a larger scale than the initial design.
A more prudent translation may perhaps be:
I believe it does a better job of emphasizing that it's the Type 055 design concept which is being praised, and makes it (in my opinion) slightly more apparent that the "055's only rival is China!" is meant primarily as a self-pat-on-the-back for having designed such a capable platform, and then being able to refine it further (as opposed to a more adversarial interpretation).
Regardless, my already mediocre langskilz have atrophied a surprising amount over the past few months, so if I am mistaken anywhere, corrections are very much welcomed.
It may refer implicitly to surface vessels. Surface vessels are a field with much greater potential for application of unmanned solutions because of the ease of networking. Networking is the parameter that defines scalability of information processing.
Underwater systems are limited by the environment so they must rely on their own size and architecture and that means that manned vessels are not going anywhere yet and likely will stay as primary tools for the next 2-3 decades.
This is something that I've already addressed in the past. An unmanned underwater system will be always outcompeted in terms of computing power and information access by a surface system in the same way that any ground-based system will always outcompete in hard physical capability any airborne system.
Similarly surface systems will have better access to resources and better endurance while underwater system will not be able to do it so easily to maintain concealment.
Unmanned surface ASW will always win so the only solution for unmanned underwater systems will be not very different from what we already have with intelligent mines.
It's mathematics and physics. You can't win against them.
For me Google Translate interprets this phrase as "subsequent models" with "model" being given synonyms of "type" and "pattern". The phrase therefore may simply refer to iterations of Type 055 subclasses i.e. Type 055, 055A, 055B etc.
It is certainly the most plausible explanation as there is no logical reason for development of an entirely new typology of large surface combatants without testing of existing ones' ability to collaborate with unmanned surface vessels. There will be a very logical and inevitable divergence point for a future class but not before the basics of manned/unmanned collaboration are practically tested in all the relevant tactical scenarios. When that happens that divergence point may occur very fast - if the conclusions are similar to what we've seen in air combat with the use of UAV with 4gen and 5gen airframes - or only within 20 years if the current ship design is proven to be sufficiently capable.
It's not a self-pat-on-the-back as much as a statement of fact.
It's 2024. DDG(X) is currently planned to come into service in 2032. That is eight years during which the only large surface combatant USN acquires is the very strained Arleigh Burke Flight III.
PLAN has both the baseline type and the shipbuilding potential to iterate two more major updates to the class based on the construction time of 104 and 108 which is 4 years and the projected construction time of 109 and subsequent ones per zh.wikipedia.
When DDG(X) enters service it may not be significantly more capable than a hypothetical third flight of 055. In its current stage it is a much more conservative design compared to Zumwalt or CG(X) and that will impose limitations on what can be innovated outside of the natural evolution of individual sub-systems.
I am very curious as to what practical lessons Zumwalts provided but whether it is simply the atrophied state of US shipbuilding that prevents greater ship architecture innovation or whether it is simply that Zumwalts were as excessively impractical as LCS, the successor to Arleigh Burke is an evolution, not a revolution and Type 055 is already in that race, and further ahead. Potentially much further ahead considering that AB, even Fl.III is a late 1980s design while Type 055 is plausibly a late 2010s design. That's 30 years of shipbuilding design with all the lessons, included in the architecture of the ship. How well US ship design can iterate - in practical terms - between 1980s Burke design, the failed/flawed Zumwalt design and a planned successor remains to be seen.
Just keep in mind that so far it couldn't come up with a design that would beat a 15-year-old French-Italian frigate design. Excessively futuristic design is not always the correct solution. Russia specialises in making futuristic plans and failing to deliver ships that are catching up in terms of technology. That's for a reason. Perhaps the insight of people who follow PLAN technological developments more closely already includes that observation. Or perhaps not. We won't know until we see it.
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Actually, no, making a replacement for the Type 055 hull wouldn't be that surprising. They have the new diesel engines. If the new intercooled gas turbines also become available then it will be possible to make ships with 50% more engine power with the same number of engines.
We are already seeing the Type 054B as the first iteration. 50% more displacement. And I expect a replacement for the Type 052D destroyers to be next. With 50% more displacement the Type 052E(?) would have 11,250 tons displacement and thus be larger than the Type 055. The replacement for Type 055 would be last. A Type 055B with the intercooled gas turbines would then have 15,000 tons displacement. Which would mean it could compete with the Zumwalt hull.
The company which makes the gas turbines for the Type 052 and 055 is already selling 40 MW gas turbines for power generation.
The CGT40 has 42.7 MW power.
We are already seeing the Type 054B as the first iteration. 50% more displacement. And I expect a replacement for the Type 052D destroyers to be next. With 50% more displacement the Type 052E(?) would have 11,250 tons displacement and thus be larger than the Type 055. The replacement for Type 055 would be last. A Type 055B with the intercooled gas turbines would then have 15,000 tons displacement. Which would mean it could compete with the Zumwalt hull.
The company which makes the gas turbines for the Type 052 and 055 is already selling 40 MW gas turbines for power generation.
The CGT40 has 42.7 MW power.
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Now that @Patchwork_Chimera has mentioned about the "055型驱逐舰的后续型号" quote by pop3 before he sadly quitted the top81 forum, I would like to recall the other two quotes by pop3 from many months ago:
In particular, sentence #2 and sentence #3.
The 1st one is that the "055型驱逐舰的后续型号" quote from sentence #3 from many months ago is the exact same as the quote pop3 said before quitting the forum. If pop3 is using the same way to describe it, then I believe that he actually means it to be the case.
The 2nd one is the visible difference between the "055型驱逐舰的后续型号" quote from sentence #3 and "六千吨级驱逐舰的新型号" quote from sentence #2. To dissect, "后续" should mean "follow-up", while "新" should mean "new". These two should have obviously different meanings.
Now the way I see it:
- The "055型驱逐舰的后续型号" quote should be translated as "The follow-up model to the Type 055 model DDG"; and
- The "六千吨级驱逐舰的新型号" quote should be translated as "The new model of the 6000 ton-class DDG".
Hence, per my own interpretation (which may or may not be fully accurate/on-point):
- The Type 055 DDG will have subsequent/successive models with iterations/upgrades that are still going to be based on the original Type 055 DDG which we're seeing today (which may or may not include significant changes to the propulsion system, among other things); and
- There will be a brand new successor model to the Type 052D/DG that should be contrasting enough from the original Type 052D/DG DDG to warrant a separate model of its own that is significantly different from the Type 052D/DG DDG, if not the entire 052 family.
In particular, sentence #2 and sentence #3.
The 1st one is that the "055型驱逐舰的后续型号" quote from sentence #3 from many months ago is the exact same as the quote pop3 said before quitting the forum. If pop3 is using the same way to describe it, then I believe that he actually means it to be the case.
The 2nd one is the visible difference between the "055型驱逐舰的后续型号" quote from sentence #3 and "六千吨级驱逐舰的新型号" quote from sentence #2. To dissect, "后续" should mean "follow-up", while "新" should mean "new". These two should have obviously different meanings.
Now the way I see it:
- The "055型驱逐舰的后续型号" quote should be translated as "The follow-up model to the Type 055 model DDG"; and
- The "六千吨级驱逐舰的新型号" quote should be translated as "The new model of the 6000 ton-class DDG".
Hence, per my own interpretation (which may or may not be fully accurate/on-point):
- The Type 055 DDG will have subsequent/successive models with iterations/upgrades that are still going to be based on the original Type 055 DDG which we're seeing today (which may or may not include significant changes to the propulsion system, among other things); and
- There will be a brand new successor model to the Type 052D/DG that should be contrasting enough from the original Type 052D/DG DDG to warrant a separate model of its own that is significantly different from the Type 052D/DG DDG, if not the entire 052 family.
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